What does the NT consider the commandments?

[Robert]

Matt 19:17 But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, "'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Gal 5:14 For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Why "the whole law"? Because "the law" in the NT/NC is basically the last six. Faith in Christ fulfills the first four:

1 John 3:23 This is his commandment:

1] to believe in his Son, the one named Jesus Christ,

2] and to love each other as he commanded us.

Faith in Christ fulfills the first four. In return Christ, through the Spirit, writes in our hearts the principle of the last six commandments.

[Gerr]

Faith in Christ fulfills the first four. In return Christ, through the Spirit, writes in our hearts the principle of the last six commandments.

And faith in Christ does not fulfill the last six? nor does He write the first four in the heart?

[John317]

Doesn't make sense, does it? Nor is it biblical.

God doesn't write His laws on our heart if we don't want Him to. He doesn't force himself or his law on people.

For instance, as long as I'm refusing to obey His commandment not to commit adultery, He won't write it on my heart. I first have to submit my life to Christ and ask Him to change me so I will stop having those kinds of desires, and then His Spirit will write it on my heart. God is the one who gives us the desire for Him and for His righteousness, but we have to make the choice whether to submit to Him.

[John317]

Gal 5:14 For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Why "the whole law"? Because "the law" in the NT/NC is basically the last six. Faith in Christ fulfills the first four:

I believe "the whole law" in Gal 5: 15 refers to the whole of the part of God's law which relates to our relationship to other people.

Even a non-Christian can love his neighbor as himself, yet if he doesn't love God or have faith in Christ, loving his neighbor won't fulfill the first four of the Ten Commandments, which deal with our relationship with God. Everything is predicated upon knowledge of, and love for, God.

[JoeMo]

To use John's example,

Quote:

as long as I'm refusing to obey His commandment not to commit adultery, He won't write it on my heart.

Trying to reconcile this with Jesus' statement that if I even have lustful thoughts about someone, I am committing adultery pretty myuch means I'm doomed! I really appreciate an attractive woman; and all my thoughts about some of them have not always been pure and wholesome (although they totally are now!)

I don't know if it's even possible to get one's thoughts under control until Jesus create's in them a new mind. Is becoming a new creation the same as writing the law upon one's heart?

[Gibs]

Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mt 22:38 This is the first and GREAT commandment.

Mt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

He didn't need to repeat the first four because in there own way be it legalistic or genuine the Jews were keeping those. He mentioned the last six because they were not doing those. They treated there animals better than they treated there fellow man.

[Robert]

I believe "the whole law" in Gal 5: 15 refers to the whole of the part of God's law which relates to our relationship to other people.

[Robert]

He didn't need to repeat the first four because in there own way, be it legalistic or genuine, the Jews were keeping those. He mentioned the last six because they were not doing those.

That's lame....Sorry to be so pointed.

[Robert]

I don't know if it's even possible to get one's thoughts under control until Jesus create's in them a new mind.

It's nonsense....it's legalistic.

[Robert]

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Yes, and we do this by placing our faith in Christ.

1 John 3:23 This is his commandment:

1] to believe in his Son, the one named Jesus Christ,

a] "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2] and to love each other as he commanded us.

b] "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

[Robert]

That's pretty much how many non-SDA see things. That's why they don't recognize the Sabbath. If you have accepted Christ you are resting in His perfect work.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Yes, and we do this by placing our faith in Christ.

Robert, we need to admit that there are many people who claim to place their faith in Christ but who don't love the Lord with all their heart and soul and mind.

Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Jesus also said that His true followers are those who obey His Father's commandments. That includes the Sabbath commandment.

Whether we love Him doesn't depend on our words but on our actions and our lives.

If you claim that no one obeys Christ's commandents, or the Father's, then you are saying that no one loves Christ and no one is a follower of Christ.

Jesus wasn't talking about perfect obedience to His commandents so that a person is not committing any sin. He is talking about loyalty, not sinlessness. The apostles John and Peter and Paul obeyed God and Christ, but they would have been the last to claim they were sinless or that they met the demands of the law.

[John317]

That's pretty much how many non-SDA see things. That's why they don't recognize the Sabbath. If you have accepted Christ you are resting in His perfect work.

So, then, if you have accepted Christ, are you also keeping all the other commands in the Decalogue?

Many people don't recognize the Sabbath because they have a lot of misinformation about what the Bible teaches regarding the Sabbath, and also because they are misinformed about the history of the Sabbath and Sunday.

I've been studying for the last few months with two friends of mine who are non-SDA pastors. Last week one of them brought up the Sabbath in connection with Gal 4: 10. He believes that faith in Christ releases us from the keeping of the Sabbath.

Do you believe that?

I noticed he doesn't believe faith in Christ releases us from the keeping of any of the other Ten Commandents, such as the ones that say we shouldn't murder, steal, lust, or commit adultery, etc.

The reason he believes faith releases us from the Sabbath has to do with the theories of Augustine and some early Christians about "the eighth day" and the Jubilee (50 years). He says that Sunday is the Lord's Day because Christ was raised from the tomb on the day following the Sabbath.

But the 7th day Sabbath points to the rest of faith that we have in Christ. Therefore it makes no sense to get rid of the pointer. We need to keep the Sabbath because it reminds us of His creation and of our rest in Jesus.

But here's the real question:

Are people obeying God's commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day simply by claiming to rest in Christ?

If we truly are resting in Christ, won't we obey Him?

[Gibs]

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Notice LOVE and the big IF in those two statements by our Lord.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Jesus also said that His true followers are those who obey His Father's commandments. That includes the Sabbath commandment.

Not according to the NT quotes.

[Robert]

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And Paul gives us the commandments:

Romans 13:9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

[Robert]

Are people obeying God's commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day simply by claiming to rest in Christ?

Yes - they are resting in His finished work.

You see when God rested from His redemptive work in Christ He didn't start working the day after the Sabbath. His work of redemption "in Christ Jesus" was perfect; it was complete. God's rest was perpetual.

So we rest in Christ everyday....I can see their point.

As to Sunday the Sabbath? No...that's not true.

[Robert]

BTW, the Jews were keeping the Sabbath. Not only that, but they added rules to what they could or could not do. But the point is they kept the Sabbath.

Do you know what Paul said about their Sabbath keeping?

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God (the Jews); 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his.

Weren't the Jews resting on the Sabbath according to the law? Yes, no doubt, but according to the text there still remained "a Sabbath-rest" for the Jews. So apparently, although they kept the Sabbath, there Sabbath keeping was meaningless.

Adventist need to be very careful not to fall into the same trap as the Jews. And SDA must be very careful on judging non-SDA for their Sunday observance. Many do it because Christ was raised. Some call it the Sabbath, some don't. There's confusion, and SDA cause their own sometimes.

The thing is are they in harmony with the last 6 commandments? If so then their faith is real.

[Gibs]

Ah but Robert note what Jesus said, yes the FIRST and GREAT commandment,

Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mt 22:38 This is the first and GREAT commandment.

That gathers in them first four!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

Mt 22:38 This is the first and GREAT commandment.

Again, NT love is faith. If God gives you agape so that you can love Him back then God becomes selfish.

[Gibs]

Well it is not because He is selfish but because He is benevolent,

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Robert]

God gives the believer agape who is resting in His salvation. otherwise it is not experienced. Agape is for you neighbor, not God. Faith is our love for God.

[epaminondas]

We don't know as the New Testament is not clear on this. One thing is sure, it includes at least the Ten Commandments.

There are many obscure passages in the Bible. Sunday cannot stand without the help of many of them (e.g. some consider this day, others another from Paul). Neither can the trinity. Go for what is clear and start from there, e.g. the seventh day is the sabbath...

Paul is responsible for many of these obscure passages. No wonder Peter said Paul was difficult to understand. Take us 2000 years and continents away and leave out the knowledge of what was going on and relevant in Paul's day, and it's no wonder one can bend much of what Paul said to one's own agenda.