The Solution to our Nation’s ‘Gun Problem’

[Tom Wetmore]

You were not the low hanging fruit...

Richard's statement about you left the easy opportunity to pick a few low hanging rejoinders.

I think he got my point! But if you would prefer to be labeled a fruit of some sort, be my guest...

[Tom Wetmore]

Worth a careful look - http://www.businessinsider.com/charts-on-firearms-in-gun-nation-2012-12

We are a gun obsessed country, an extreme outlier in the world when it comes to gun ownership and homicide deaths by guns. Question for the NRA response, if more guns protect, why do more guns correlate so directly to more deaths by guns?

That otherwise intelligent people with a conservative mindset seem unable to grasp that is indeed a mystery.

A question - What gun control laws currently in existence anywhere in the US or even under serious consideration will prevent you personally from purchasing and/or owning a gun?

[bonnie]

We are a gun obsessed country, an extreme outlier in the world when it comes to gun ownership and homicide deaths by guns. Question for the NRA response, if more guns protect, why do more guns correlate so directly to more deaths by guns?

[Neil D]

Neil, up until today, I was giving you full credit for being twice as smart as you actually are. Even after that dirty underhanded stuff you tried to pull with Maria.

I know there are people like you in the world.

Low information people.

Among other things.

I really do wish you well, Richard...I really do....but based upon your posts, I have my doubts.....

My evidence is your posts...they are full of hate...and that emotion will kill all sorts of relationships...

I really do wish you well, but I fear that when aspects of the relationships become common, that realization will set in that a mistake was made...I pray that, if these things happen, you will be able to work it out....

People, on BBS, will show who they really are, since most of them are physically anonymous to others...as a result, when subjects arise that they disagree with, they post their common self.... and we, your readers, get to see just who you really are......

Your posts have been quite malicious...They have attacked people for no other reason than to squelch ideas whose time have come...

It's time to show who you really are, Richard....the question is, are you willing to be the person on this board that shows who you truly are, or do you like being the malevolent person that you have shown?

[Neil D]

Did you guys see this article ?

Columbine High School Had Armed Guards During Massacre In 1999

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html

I think that this speaks to the evidence that armed guards failed to protect the kids at Columbine...what makes you think that we need more guns or humans with guns at a school designed to be a place to learn, and not a prison?

[Tom Wetmore]

OK. So what is your solution?

As for the NRA "solution" of having police with guns at schools, Columbine had an armed security guard in the school at the time of the shooting and a motorcycle cop was nearby and on the scene within a minute of hearing the dispatch and actually shot at Harris without success. And Virginia Tech, the worst school massacre, had its own armed police force on campus.

Just to clarify/correct any misconception you may have about me and what I think of guns. I am not against guns or owning guns. I was taught as a young boy how to shoot and respect a gun and hunted when I was younger. My dad had a 6.5 mm Carcano Model 91/38 rifle (yes, the same as the one that killed Kennedy) in the house for quite a few years and just few years ago gave his vintage Winchester 22 (the one I used a great deal as a kid and almost accidentally shot myself in the head with...) to his younger brother who is a gun collector and still a diehard hunter. I think my dad still has his .410 shotgun. I grew up in prime hunting country. I know how to use a gun. I had not used a shotgun until recently when I was invited to go skeet/trap shooting with friends. (Yes, I have quite a few conservative gun toting friends.) Enjoyed it and think I may just have to get myself a shotgun and do it some more.

And for those who want a scapegoat to blame, I also enjoy a good action/western/crime movie/TV show with lots of guns and explosions and violence. I also frequently play first person shooter video games. I don't think they are the cause, but rather a reflection of the reality/culture we live in. People were violent and killing each other long before those things ever came along. And considering that millions of people seek out and enjoy that sort of entertainment without ever touching a real weapon should tell you that it doesn't turn people into mad killers.

But the bottom line is that we need to do a far better job of making our communities safer for ourselves and our children. Living in fear is not a good thing. And an armed garrison/bunker mentality is not the answer.

[bonnie]

OK. So what is your solution?

As for the NRA "solution" of having police with guns at schools, Columbine had an armed security guard in the school at the time of the shooting and a motorcycle cop was nearby and on the scene within a minute of hearing the dispatch and actually shot at Harris without success. And Virginia Tech, the worst school massacre, had its own armed police force on campus.

[bonnie]

Can you offer an explanation as to why when my brother shot a double barreled shotgun in the air and invited the intruder to "Please come again" he declined the invitation? Did he fear armed resistance?

Why do you think the homes that had warnings of "armed resistance" in the neighborhood that had a series of robberies and break ins were not bothered but those without were broken into and robbed?

Several homes after that went and purchased the warning decals,even without a gun in the home.Wonder why that was

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

OK. So what is your solution?

There really isn't a solution. Yes,at times the best precautions fail.

It is my understanding that this last incident, where 20 first graders were killed along with 6/7 teachers, was an incident involving a legitimate and legal requirement of guns...it failed us...

The mother of the deranged son, bought several weapons legitimately, but didn't store them away properly. She had them registered, but he was able to access them. She was killed by her own guns, and he was deranged...

It occurs to me that there needs to be more, stricter legislation on those who use guns to prevent those who don't use them from accessing them...Yes, I agree that it is more problematic for the gun owners, but it is to keep those guns out of the hands of those who don't qualify...

[bonnie]

It is my understanding that this last incident, where 20 first graders were killed along with 6/7 teachers, was an incident involving a legitimate and legal requirement of guns...it failed us...

[bonnie]

If I were to decide to purchase a gun legally,register it,train with it,pass all the requirements. I don't have a criminal record or anything to indicate that I should not have one.

How are you going to enforce my actions at home.I agree to keep them safely under lock and key and decide not to because of the hassle.I have 12 grandchildren that come and go,how will a law protect them if a little one gets access?

We had guns while our sons were growing up,not one was locked up.

[Tom Wetmore]

I think we agree on more of this than you think. (That is a fearful thought isn't it!)

But I am not willing to say that there is no solution.

I am not so sure I understand your repeated reference to the security for the president and his family. It almost sounds like you begrudge them this effort to protect them. But that they need this kind of protection is beyond and more complex than what we are talking about since it also includes serious national security interests and protection from our national enemies. The average citizen does not live under constant 24/7/365 threat of personal harm and risk of violence.

Here is a big part of the problem as I see it. We look to guns as the ultimate problem solver for what we fear both external and internal. It eliminates problems/fears what we cannot otherwise solve. The sad statistic of suicide by guns (the majority of gun related deaths are suicide and the leading cause of suicidal death is by guns) seem to suggest that in the mind of the suicidal person, the only way of escape of their pain/misery/fears is death, and a gun does it most effectively.

We need to get past the idea that guns are the best or only way to solve the problems we feel we must have them for. We need to look for more rational solutions.

Take home security for example. Are guns the only or most effective way to protect us in our homes? Sadly there are more deaths by the guns of those gun owners or members of their families who keep guns in the house for personal protection than crime prevented with those guns. And an alarmingly high percentage of victims of homicides were themselves armed and shooting unsuccessfully at the assailant. You have to have to be more vigilant, quicker and more lethal and more accurate than the armed intruder that is already operating on high alert stealth mode. And let's be realistic, how many people who keep guns in the house for protection have actually had an armed intruder in their house or even in houses in their neighborhood? I would guess a very low percentage. But more telling, probably not so different than those who have no guns in the house.

What alternatives are there for home security? Are guns the only way?

[Guest]

That otherwise intelligent people with a conservative mindset seem unable to grasp that is indeed a mystery.

My intelligence that resides with the conservative mindset is the only part that is verifiably correct. )

I can't even come close to saying that about the 'otherwise' part.

[Guest]

I think we agree on more of this than you think. (That is a fearful thought isn't it!)

[OzarkWoman]

I am a gun owner and proud of it. I have known how to shoot since I was a very young child.

[Guest]

I am a gun owner and proud of it. I have known how to shoot since I was a very young child.

My dad started teaching me how to shoot a pistol when I was about seven.

[bonnie]

I think we agree on more of this than you think. (That is a fearful thought isn't it!)

[bonnie]

Bonnie and Tom, on the same page....hmmmm.

Quote:

What alternatives are there for home security? Are guns the only way?

What would you recommend in place of guns?

I am beginning to worry about your eyes Richard,seems like a "internet virus" that is catchy.Hope you recover soon

[bonnie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_methods

Research published in the New England Journal of Medicine and the National Academy of Science found an association between household firearm ownership and gun suicide rates,[14][15] though a study by one researcher did not find a statistically significant association between household firearms and gun suicide rates,[16] except in the suicides of children aged 5–14.[16] During the 1980s and early 1990s, there was a strong upward trend in adolescent suicides with a gun,[17] as well as a sharp overall increase in suicides among those age 75 and over.[18]

Two separate studies, in Canada and Australia, conducted in conjunction with more restrictive firearms legislation, demonstrated that while legislation showed a decrease in firearms suicide, other methods such as hanging increased. In Australia, the overall rate of suicide continued along an increasing trend, not decreasing until measures specifically aimed to provide support for those intent on suicide were implemented.[19][20][21]

Research also indicates no association vis-à-vis safe-storage laws of guns that are owned, and gun suicide rates; and studies that attempt to link gun ownership to likely victimology often fail to account for the presence of guns owned by other people.[22][23] Researchers have shown that safe-storage laws do not appear to affect gun suicide rates or juvenile accidental gun death.[22][23]

Hanging is the prevalent means of suicide in pre-industrial societies, and is more common in rural areas than in urban areas.[25] It is also a common means of suicide in situations where other materials are not readily available, such as in prisons.

Vehicular impact

Another way of committing suicide is deliberately placing oneself in the path of a large and fast-moving vehicle, resulting in fatal impact.[citation needed]

Rail

Lime on rails after a suicide in Mainz-Laubenheim

Suicide is accomplished by throwing oneself directly in front of an oncoming train, or driving a car onto the tracks.[26] Suicide by train impact has resulted in a 90% death rate[citation needed], making it one of the most fatal suicide methods. Failed attempts may result in profound injuries, such as massive fractures, amputations, concussion and severe mental and physical handicapping.[27]

Place

In some European countries with highly developed rail networks and strict gun control laws, such as Germany and Sweden, railway-related suicide is considered a social problem, and extensive research has been carried out into this type of suicide. According to these studies, most suicides occur in densely populated areas, but away from rail stations and terminal points. Wooded areas, curves and tunnels are especially plagued. Many rail-related suicides occur in proximity to mental health wards. Low land prices close to the railroad lines has led to several mental health wards being located in their proximity, making it easy for suicidal patients to access the tracks.[cita

[lazarus]

We need to get past the idea that guns are the best or only way to solve the problems we feel we must have them for. We need to look for more rational solutions.

In one sense guns are not the problem. It's the mindset of the culture. I don't think Americans are generally less moral than other nations in the world yet the gun homicide rate dwarfs that of other comparable nations. Something is fundamentally wrong in the particular segment of society that has consistently produced this kind of criminal.

[lazarus]

Although most gun owners reportedly keep a firearm in their home for "protection" or "self defense," 83 percent of gun-related deaths in these homes are the result of a suicide, often by someone other than the gun owner.

Firearms are used in more suicides than homicides.

Death by firearms is the fastest growing method of suicide.

Firearms account for 50 percent of all suicides.

http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?fuseaction...1135c3a70de1fda

[bonnie]

In one sense guns are not the problem. It's the mindset of the culture. I don't think Americans are generally less moral than other nations in the world yet the gun homicide rate dwarfs that of other comparable nations. Something is fundamentally wrong in the particular segment of society that has consistently produced this kind of criminal.

More,more and more laws should fix the mindset.

There isn't any law that can be passed and many will be passed

to correct the course of the US