The US could learn a lot from our Ozzie cousins...

[phkrause]

"My people" will hunt you down and kill you

if you don't willingly do what we demand

The "My People" is what is disturbing about that for a christian

And who said that? I'm curious? I have read most of the posts and have not read that in any, unless I missed it!

[bonnie]

And who said that? I'm curious? I have read most of the posts and have not read that in any, unless I missed it!

Neil did

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

And who said that? I'm curious? I have read most of the posts and have not read that in any, unless I missed it!

Neil did

There was more to it than just me saying that...Bonnies stretching the truth again...Context is everything...

[bonnie]

And who said that? I'm curious? I have read most of the posts and have not read that in any, unless I missed it!

[bonnie]

And who said that? I'm curious? I have read most of the posts and have not read that in any, unless I missed it!

[OzarkWoman]

I am really trying to understand why a Christian needs guns to defend God's principles? That is what it seems you are advocating....

I never said it was to defend God's principles. Anti-gun people really are fanatics, like anti-smoking people. In fact, anti-anything people seem to be fantaics and don't believe in the freedoms we have in this country along with our RIGHTS. BTW, why do you even care why anyone wants a gun? It is none of your business. Seems to me that you are trying to make a mountain out of nothing, but that does seem to be the way of anti people. Well, have fun arguing for the country to overturn the 2nd Ammendment. It doesn't matter what I do but I do believe in not worrying about why others want guns. That would be because i don't believe in sticking my nose into other people's buisness.

[phkrause]

"I guarantee you MY PEOPLE" will be the ones to do this is what I find rather startling

So lets find out who "my people" are! And how do we know this is not a miss spelling?? So Neil what did you mean by this phrase?

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

"I guarantee you MY PEOPLE" will be the ones to do this is what I find rather startling

So lets find out who "my people" are! And how do we know this is not a miss spelling?? So Neil what did you mean by this phrase?

Anti-gun nuts are fanatics and want to overturn the 2nd Ammendment and don't believe in other people's rights, only theirs.

[bonnie]

So lets find out who "my people" are! And how do we know this is not a miss spelling?? So Neil what did you mean by this phrase?

You might be able to find a way that this doesn't mean what it says but it is pretty hard to misspell "My people"

I am quite sure now it will be a miss spelling. OTOH,Neil did not claim a miss spelling,he said I stretched the truth and took it out of context.The included the post without any edit

[bonnie]

We do know that there will be a lot of lawlessness.I do believe people will rebel instead of giving up their guns rights.

I don't think we should as in disobeying the law,but neither do I think we should so wholeheartedly support laws that will lead to this type of thing.

It is surprising the number of people that recognize where we are headed that do not do so from a biblical perspective.

They somehow think it is still possible to save the US in the manner it was first carried out.

They do think their guns at that time will offer them protection

[phkrause]

You might be able to find a way that this doesn't mean what it says but it is pretty hard to misspell "My people"

I am quite sure now it will be a miss spelling. OTOH,Neil did not claim a miss spelling,he said I stretched the truth and took it out of context.The included the post without any edit

So lets say your right! Who would be "my people?" Is Neil in charge of some group? Is he someone that wants people to be without guns so that he can than go around and do what?????? Or maybe he believes in his opinion as much as you believe in your opinion?

[bonnie]

So lets say your right! Who would be "my people?" Is Neil in charge of some group? Is he someone that wants people to be without guns so that he can than go around and do what?????? Or maybe he believes in his opinion as much as you believe in your opinion?

"My people" doesn't have to refer to a group you are in charge of.Simply those you align yourself with or identify with.I am sure he does believe he is right. However I do not want people killed by "my people"

Is he someone that wants people to be without guns so that he can than go around and do what??????

I think he answered that quite plainly himself.

I guarantee that my people in this society will remove all guns from society and anyone found with a gun, will be shot and killed for potential murder...[now, I admit, that is a bit extreme, but that is what you are facing.]

He wants stricter gun laws,whatever that is or guarantees that my people in this society will remove all guns from society and anyone found with a gun, will be shot and killed for potential murder...

What is it you fail to understand in his words?

I don't know about you,but I am not a big fan of shooting someone because a group of people did not meet my demands for a law. Maybe that is the way we should do it,but I think we will see enough of that in the future. If Neils people are going to remove all guns from society and shoot and kill anyone found with a gun,those are not people I want to be affiliated with

[bonnie]

You make of it what you will. If I tell you that if you don't comply and pass the laws "my people want" and do as they say they will shoot and kill you I don't think you would wonder to much about my meaning.

That might be the way,but I don't think I want to go there.

Whoever wants to be a part of "My people' in this post is free to do so

[Neil D]

that this doesn't mean what it says but it is pretty hard to misspell "My people"

I am quite sure now it will be a miss spelling. OTOH,Neil did not claim a miss spelling,he said I stretched the truth and took it out of context.The included the post without any edit

So you want to know who "my people" are....Well, let's start by telling you who they are not...We are not the Klu Klux Klan, nor are we some clandestine organization of Homeland Security, the CIA or the "underground/Shadow Government". We are not the Mofia, Opus Dei nor the Illuminate. Contrary to what you are thinking, we do not kill our neighbor's dog for taking a dump in our yard, nor do we threaten our neighbor with our own acquired gun. "My people" are those who are able to live within this society without guns. We are able to discuss, and yes, yell, shout and utter pejorative phrases at those who are not intelligent enough to understand simple social rules of etiquette...

We don't have guns, because guns are made to kill....words don't kill....yelling/shouting may cause heart attacks but that is a self inflicted wound, not one to be brandied upon a disrespectful less understanding [read that in "intelligent"] neighbor...

In the context of having "My People" understood is the implication of the concept of "YOUR PEOPLE", who ARE members of the KKK, super patriotic fanatics, and enforcement members of the underground/shadow government, those whose 2nd amendment rights superseded their understanding of biblical truths that LOVE DOESN'T KILL GOD'S Creatures...Instead, they revel in secondary and non-primary biblical rules, much like the pharisees of Jesus' day, whose understanding of "Corban" was never superseded by the concept of Agape Love.

Today's pharisee revel in the knowledge that Jesus never forbade weapons, but rather implied that it was ok to use them against God's enemies....The trouble with that thinking is that Saul was once God's primary enemy of the NT church, so much so, that when one disciple was told to get him, he hesitated..and even implied God didn't know what He was doing.. If the early church allowed the use of weapons, we would not have some of the greatest letters of inspiration of the NT.And don't think that there were some of the NT weren't wishing for his death.

My people are people who don't use guns...we are a people who rely upon the proper people trained to use them, the police...Yes, we realize that only outlaws will have guns if guns are outlawed...But you don't have to worry that MY PEople are killing 20 first graders....You will never hear of a mass murdering Liberal killing many people in one sitting unless he uses guns or some weapon...It simply doesnt happen...

We liberals/progressives, who live in this society, don't need guns to function in this society. However, you people, the gun users, feel that you do...And it is incumbent upon YOU, who use guns, to prevent things like the killing of 20 first graders just before Christmas. You know more about how guns should be handled AND BY WHOM than we do...Therefore, collectively, you are responsible for the use of your guns individually in this society.

The ramifications of not living up to your responsibility is that we liberals will take your rights away from you...or at least, modify it such that having guns is more trouble than it is worth..And it will be done all in the name of safety and sanity....Perhaps there might be a ban sought to remove guns entirely from society and only those qualified to use them will...Those outlaws who do use them, could possibly be perceived as one wishing the death of little ones, as those 20 first graders...and yes, then you will be thought of as being a danger to society because you have a killing weapon that can be used against that same society. And yes, your stubbornness in having the gun, will force those authorized in deadly force to remove those guns from you....IOWs, if this scenario plays out, you will be shot and killed for having a dangerous weapon because you are a danger to society.

That is about as clear as I can get as to what was meant by the above quote...

[Neil D]

Anti-gun nuts are fanatics and want to overturn the 2nd Ammendment and don't believe in other people's rights, only theirs.

This is absolutely not true...

I started out this thread saying that gun owners need to step up to thier responsiblity and enforce and enlarge/modify the gun laws because they are currently not able to keep 20 first graders from getting killed.

I then said that if gun owners don't want those same gun rights removed, then they NEED to step up and encourage the enforcement of current laws...and encourage modifying some gun laws...

I did not start out saying that all guns are not needful and needed to be taken away...I also gave examples as to where those laws could be looked at...

....for example, grading guns from single shot to semi-auto to automatic weapons. Increasing gun certification and encouraging re-certification in a timely manner...enforcement of these laws are needful because we don't want mass murder of children/innocents. We are getting tired of burying our innocents from violent gun acts. 45 people are killed everyday across the US due to violent gun acts...This has to stop.

But what you "read' was something I never said....

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Anti-gun nuts are fanatics and want to overturn the 2nd Ammendment and don't believe in other people's rights, only theirs.

This is absolutely not true...

I started out this thread saying that gun owners need to step up to thier responsiblity and enforce and enlarge/modify the gun laws because they are currently not able to keep 20 first graders from getting killed.

I then said that if gun owners don't want those same gun rights removed, then they NEED to step up and encourage the enforcement of current laws...and encourage modifying some gun laws...

I did not start out saying that all guns are not needful and needed to be taken away...I also gave examples as to where those laws could be looked at...

....for example, grading guns from single shot to semi-auto to automatic weapons. Increasing gun certification and encouraging re-certification in a timely manner...enforcement of these laws are needful because we don't want mass murder of children/innocents. We are getting tired of burying our innocents from violent gun acts. 45 people are killed everyday across the US due to violent gun acts...This has to stop.

But what you "read' was something I never said....

So, how exactly do you think people are supposed to make sure others follow said laws? Gun owners, for the most part, have always encouraged for the gun laws to be enforced. You might want to blame the AG in the states and the federal government. What all you said really made no sense at all because one does not control what another does.

[OzarkWoman]

[My people are people who don't use guns...we are a people who rely upon the proper people trained to use them, the police...Yes, we realize that only outlaws will have guns if guns are outlawed...But you don't have to worry that MY PEople are killing 20 first graders....You will never hear of a mass murdering Liberal killing many people in one sitting unless he uses guns or some weapon...It simply doesnt happen...

I call BS on your whole premise. You really have no idea what the political leanings are of all mas killers. In fact, the idiot who killed and shot the representative in Arizona said he was a Democrat, so right there proves you have no idea what you post. The fact is that many of the mass killers never even got their guns until very close to the time that they comitted their crime and some, like the last school killed stole the guns.

You don't care about the killing. You really seem to care more about the politics of it than the fact that children were killed.

[Neil D]

So, how exactly do you think people are supposed to make sure others follow said laws? Gun owners, for the most part, have always encouraged for the gun laws to be enforced. You might want to blame the AG in the states and the federal government. What all you said really made no sense at all because one does not control what another does.

The same way the public obey traffic laws, and follow banking laws and all the other laws of the land. And yeah, you will still have people making left hand turns from the far right hand lanes...or runing red lights or not stoping at a traffic signal....do they get caught? most dont...some do...and some pay for the consequences of thier mistakes...but most people are compliant. So, what's your point?

As for "always encouraged for the gun laws to be enforced.", how come I've never heard you say that until now? How come YOU are not in your representative's face and writing letters to get those gun laws enforced??? After all, it IS incumbent upon you, a gun owner, to keep those laws enforced. And on top of that, you will have "those liberals" right there beside you telling that rep/senator to get the lead out and enforce those laws as well...

[OzarkWoman]

You have no idea what I do or don't do in my home or in my state. Listen, I have decided to not reply to you anymore because I see you as a control freak who is nothing but a liberal who wishes to take people's rights away. You assume way too much and you are nothing but a big mouted person. I still say that if you had been my first impression of the SDA denomination, I never would have joined. I would have run as fas as I could away from you and your church. Thankfully, I had and have a decent and caring pastor who truly wants to help lead people to jesus and not control them. I will now ignore you because I don't like you.

BTW, it is not up to me to make sure about any laws. You, neil, are a very sick control freak and you need some help.

[Neil D]

I call BS on your whole premise. You really have no idea what the political leanings are of all mas killers. In fact, the idiot who killed and shot the representative in Arizona said he was a Democrat, so right there proves you have no idea what you post. The fact is that many of the mass killers never even got their guns until very close to the time that they comitted their crime and some, like the last school killed stole the guns.

You don't care about the killing. You really seem to care more about the politics of it than the fact that children were killed.

1] I really don't care what the political leanings of mass murders are...last I heard regarding the Arizona killing, that guy was a republican...but I don't care..

2] the guns gotten from the mass shooting of first graders, were stolen...from his mother, whom she lived with and expressed concern over his demeanor. She should have never been given guns.

3] This last shooting, the woman bought the guns for the neighbor, who shot up a mall and then himself. She claims the guns were stolen from her, but there is no record of a report.

4] as for the politics of children being killed by guns, I do care....I've seen too many children die by gun violence...I'm a respiratory therapist...I take care of the airway during emergency/dying situations...and it affects us all....So, please, don't play that card on me...I can tell you stories...

[Neil D]

You have no idea what I do or don't do in my home or in my state. Listen, I have decided to not reply to you anymore because I see you as a control freak who is nothing but a liberal who wishes to take people's rights away. You ASSume way too much and you are nothing but a big mouted person. I still say that if you had been my first impression of the SDA denomination, I never would have joined. I would have run as fas as I could away from you and your church. Thankfully, I had and have a decent and caring pastor who truly wants to help lead people to jesus and not control them. I will now ignore you because I don't like you.

BTW, it is not up to me to make sure about any laws. You, neil, are a very sick control freak and you need some help.

Wow!

I ask a hard question, and you won't answer it....because it shows who and what type of person you are....

And you call me names....."sick control freak"...whoa....

Can't answer the question, therefore you gotta kill the messenger....

Ok....

Oh, and BTW, when you say "it is not up to me to make sure about any laws." you are abdicating the responsibility of owning a gun.IOWs, you didn't make sure that you did your best to keep the deaths of innocents from happening...Therefore, you have no right to complain when/if my people take away your guns....

[bonnie]

So you want to know who "my people" are....Well, let's start by telling you who they are not...We are not the Klu Klux Klan, nor are we some clandestine organization of Homeland Security, the CIA or the "underground/Shadow Government". We are not the Mofia, Opus Dei nor the Illuminate. Contrary to what you are thinking, we do not kill our neighbor's dog for taking a dump in our yard, nor do we threaten our neighbor with our own acquired gun. "My people" are those who are able to live within this society without guns. We are able to discuss, and yes, yell, shout and utter pejorative phrases at those who are not intelligent enough to understand simple social rules of etiquette...

Goodness,you go thru quite a long list of types of people that I had never thought of in regards to this.

Not sure where I ever indicated that I thought "we" killed their neighbor's dogs.I live quite well without a gun.If all guns were to suddenly disappear from the face of the earth,I would not be deprived of anything I own or hope to own.

I think you have crossed the line of simple rules of etiquette frequently.

We don't have guns, because guns are made to kill....words don't kill....yelling/shouting may cause heart attacks but that is a self inflicted wound, not one to be brandied upon a disrespectful less understanding [read that in "intelligent"] neighbor..

Never anticipated killing a "less intelligent neighbor or anyone.

in the context of having "My People" understood is the implication of the concept of "YOUR PEOPLE", who ARE members of the KKK, super patriotic fanatics, and enforcement memIbers of the underground/shadow government, those whose 2nd amendment rights superseded their understanding of biblical truths that LOVE DOESN'T KILL GOD'S Creatures...Instead, they revel in secondary and non-primary biblical rules, much like the pharisees of Jesus' day, whose understanding of "Corban" was never superseded by the concept of Agape Love.Nope,My people" are not members of any of the groups you mentioned.

You can determine who is a pharisee,not sure I would want that job.Yes,I have seen some "amazing" examples of agape love.The type I don't need

Today's pharisee revel in the knowledge that Jesus never forbade weapons, but rather implied that it was ok to use them against God's enemies....The trouble with that thinking is that Saul was once God's primary enemy of the NT church, so much so, that when one disciple was told to get him, he hesitated..and even implied God didn't know what He was doing.. If the early church allowed the use of weapons, we would not have some of the greatest letters of inspiration of the NT.And don't think that there were some of the NT weren't wishing for his death.

That is a far out statement.

My people are people who don't use guns...we are a people who rely upon the proper people trained to use them, the police...Yes, we realize that only outlaws will have guns if guns are outlawed..

Then please explain how "your people are going to confiscate and shoot to kill anyone that does not comply.With their finger? Why would you use the proper authorities to "kill God's enemies"

But you don't have to worry that MY PEople are killing 20 first graders....You will never hear of a mass murdering Liberal killing many people in one sitting unless he uses guns or some weapon...It simply doesnt happen...

The man that shot the 20 first graders didn't belong to any group of "my people".But your people will shoot and kill those that don't comply.Nice

Quote:

We liberals/progressives, who live in this society, don't need guns to function in this society. However, you people, the gun users, feel that you do

You are making a lot of assumptions. When you say "you people" that means what? I am not a gun user,don't have a gun for self defense in the house

..And it is incumbent upon YOU, who use guns, to prevent things like the killing of 20 first graders just before Christmas. You know more about how guns should be handled AND BY WHOM than we do...Therefore, collectively, you are responsible for the use of your guns individually in this society.

No I am not,collectively or otherwise. The shooting took place in a gun free zone and in an area that I believe has strict gun laws. The law really wasn't all that effective was it in deterring this young man?

The ramifications of not living up to your responsibility is that we liberals will take your rights away from you...or at least, modify it such that having guns is more trouble than it is worth..And it will be done all in the name of safety and sanity...

I agree, we are fast approaching that day when liberals will take our rights away. I was taught as a child that when the days comes in the US the reasoning behind the "laws" would be for our own good And it will be done all in the name of safety and sanity.Anytime I wonder how it could be that this nation will play the role it will,I remember that

Perhaps there might be a ban sought to remove guns entirely from society and only those qualified to use them will...Those outlaws who do use them, could possibly be perceived as one wishing the death of little ones, as those 20 first graders...and yes, then you will be thought of as being a danger to society because you have a killing weapon that can be used against that same society. And yes, your stubbornness in having the gun, will force those authorized in deadly force to remove those guns from you....IOWs, if this scenario plays out, you will be shot and killed for having a dangerous weapon because you are a danger to society. Exactly,the previously mentioned "My people"And yes,they will certainly go after those they see as a danger or responsible for the state of the country

That is about as clear as I can get as to what was meant by the above quote...

You explained it perfectly the first time.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

I am really trying to understand why a Christian needs guns to defend God's principles?

I am not surprised. In case you didn't know enough about the Bible, Jesus never advocated that people weren't allowed to protect themselves.

What did he mean when he said to turn the other cheek? What did he mean when he said to love your enemies? I think it fair to say loving your enemies doesn't include shooting them.

[bonnie]

What did he mean when he said to turn the other cheek? What did he mean when he said to love your enemies? I think it fair to say loving your enemies doesn't include shooting them.

Could you explain what you think it means?

Are you only referring to the use of a gun and killing someone?

Are you always to turn the other cheek in all situations?

Not hypothetical. There was a rash of sexual assaults along with the victims being beaten.Some were frail elderly women beaten and raped. The rapist picked on the wrong one and got the surprise of his life. A not very big,but very strong,athletic young woman turned the tables on him and put him in a world of hurt.She could not escape as she was trapped in her garage. The fight ended up outside the garage and the rapist tried to get away.The young woman grabbed something to use as a weapon and went after him.Neighbors,seeing the fight called 911,by the time they got there,they found the young woman had trapped him and he was begging the PO for help..Had this not been so serious the idea of this man that had raped and beaten frail old women and then begging for protection from this small woman would have been funny.The young woman went after him because she was afraid he would target her and come back and that in time if not stooped he would kill someone.

Sounds like in your world this woman was wrong.She had definitely hurt him and did not turn the other cheek. Had this been your wife you would have told her what?

A young girl,10 years old was abducted. She did not have a chance to flee,run or scream as loud as she could as she had been instructed by her dad.Thankfully her father had gone beyond the first common sense precautions. She kept her head and fought back in the way her dad had instructed.If I understand you right this little scared 10 year old should

have turned the other cheek.While I don't know the wisdom of a child always physically fighting back,most abducted children end up dead in any event.

The little girl fought back physically as taught by her dad in ways that were unexpected and actually hurt the man.

She did not turn the other cheek. Should she have?

Most people that believe in self defense are not these gun crazy people that is being portrayed or "those returning evil for evil"

[OzarkWoman]

Harken back to 1933.