What To Do When You Disagree With The Church?

[debbym]

i am thankful the "shepherds rod" organization which later became the Davidians at Waco Texas, never took over the SDA church. There was a vigorous stand against them.

i remember when they came around our home, and were refused.

Granted it was by the power of truth and grace i was protected, but i am thankful for those who stood in the place God said, and held their ground in the word of God, even though they were weak erring people. God was there.

and you do not know when you will be asked to stand ground in the word of God, in love and mercy, in the gracious but truthful character of God.

it is not about people weeding out people, it is a much higher conflict. it is not people against people even. it is about principles and what motivation and spirit is moving you.

we are merely earthen vessels, and the conflict is about the truth of the Goodness and Grace, and Holiness, and Righteousness of God alone.

It is not our battle, it is the Lords, and only with humility and consecration can you do anything that will lift up Christ and glorify the truth in the word of God.

When your conference president is in error, what can you do but pray, when your pastor is in error, what can you do but pray, if your fellow church member is in error, what can you do but pray. God does shield his own, and he will shake everything that can be shaken. the only thing that cannot be shaken is the rock of Jesus, and He is revealed in the word of God.

and if God's Spirit moves you to speak or act, it is not for you or your glory, but only for God's glory.

it is peaceful and kind and merciful, not vindictive or judgmental or condemning in any way to ever do what God asks you to do.

deb

[hch]

Debjm,

on the one hand we can be thankful that the shepherds Rod never got a strong foothold. On the other hand we can lament that in 1888, the righteousness by faith movement was kept out and delayed.

Today when God sends more light we are hard pressed to discern if it is false or true. If we reject the truth and keep it out we are in as much danger as if we embrace a lie as if it were true.

It is good that God knows what is Present Truth and His Holy Spirit leads those who choose to follow Him into what they need to know.

[phkrause]

And besides, Jesus tells us that God will be doing the weeding, not us.

[JoeMo]

Hi debjm,

You posted that in several circumstances, all we can do is pray. I respectfully think there is always more we can do. In many cases, we can pray with our feet our mouths, and our computers. I have personally had my errors turned around by a concerned brother or sister who approached me to dialog and encourage rather than simply to rebuke. I have personally through prayer followed up by personal encouragement, turned people around who were erroneously believing the lies that the evil one was putting into their heads. It always starts with prayer; but sometimes God uses us to answer our own prayers about others. Leaving it all up to God alone can be equivalent to "giving up". God uses His people to accomplish His work. He has already used you on several occasions to change my heart on some issues.

You are that radical Christian that God will use as ground zero to start revival all around you.

[debbym]

i think it is important to be honest with the church leadership if you feel your beliefs are truly outside of the SDA belief system.

maybe send a letter the your conference president if you feel you want to have some private conversations about your positions outside of your church but within the denomination.

and pray

deb

[hch]

I once approached my conference president at campmeeting and asked if I could send him an email. He agreed, and gave me his address. I sent it. Never heard back. Followed up twice and finally decided that he was too busy.

Blessings

[phkrause]

Or who ever filters his email, decided it wasn't important enough.

[hch]

And all this time I was thinking that it was him.

We lament that people are living in gated communities that make it hard for our do to door work to proceed, but perhaps we do the same thing on the internet frontier?

[debbym]

so true,

a registered letter he has to sign for would really get his attention. small cost for something important.

[Woody]

I have no idea how you wrote your letter - but much does depend upon how we write. If the letter is just full of hate and mean spirited accusations etc - it will probably not get a response. If it gives well thought out suggestions on a better way - it may very well get a response. If there are sincere questions that evoke a response - you may very well get one. Much has to do with writing styles.

It could be that the man felt it to be fruitless to respond.

Again - I have no idea. Just putting out a few options for his lack of response. None may apply in your case.

Blessings to you

[Grammy]

It would be interesting to know the points on which your entire church disagrees with traditional Adventism (not the phrase you used, but you get the point) to the point where your group is no longer allowed to bear the SDA denominational name. Care to share?

God bless your courage!

[Ron Lambert]

There are basic doctrinal points that define our faith. But there is also the area of traditional ways of doing things, that do not define our faith. I maintain that the seven seals of Revelation 6-7, because they are opened in the context of the Judgment (chapters 4 and 5), should be applied AFTER 1844. Now some people will consider this thoughtfully. Some may question whether Rev. 4 & 5 are talking about the Judgment (but there is really no way to defend this denial of what is so obvious). There are also some people who will move heaven and earth to find some way to preserve the way the seven seals have been taught in the past in our church. To these people I would simply say this: The church is not our righteousness, the Lord is our righteousness. If we think even in the back of our mind that the church must somehow be considered infallible in the way our evangelists have taught this subject for decades, then we are in effect saying that we are infallible, because the church is us. We are but creatures. It is the Creator alone who is infallible. Not us. We want to walk in His truth, not our in traditions. We can only progress if we are willing to keep up with the onward progression of "present truth." To rebel against this is to rebel against the leading of the Holy Spirit. Again, it is HIS truth, not OURS.

[Neil D]

....and it is ours to emulate, and to understand...It is ours to possess as best we can because it is our RIGHT to become the children of Love...

Our problem is that we haven't seen it...we haven't felt it, touched it...heard the tone of His voice when we speak to Him...It's been filtered by our voice...our hearing, ...

It is only by dwelling upon HIm, and being inspired by Him, hearing a story of Him and how He inspired one of us inculcate another facet of the beauty of Love into our being...

HcH, I see judgement in your story...and it taints my understanding of being a child of Love....Your story is no different from the churches....sorry...

[debbym]

in our day, in the packages of our humanity as it is in this age, this era, this decade, this year, this hour, we are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to communicate to us, and through us the holiness, and purity of God's unselfish love, and people were in any other age from the garden of Eden on.

before Sin Adam and Eve were completely dependent on God, and now as we are we are even more dependent on God, being we have a sinful nature able to derail us any moment.

so when we disagree with the church, let there be a struggle, a full and frank conversation, let it happen, then unity will be all the more deeply established on the part of one or the other or both, that unity with Jesus.

it is never about one opinion it is about who God is, and who we are and how much we need him.

[video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3wSbLa2uGg

[joeb]

Great post, debbym.

It's often the case when there is disagreement with the church that it's about ego rather than who God is, and that's sad.

[Neil D]

....and it should be about what is lost and how to get it back....like a smoker who has lost the protection of his cillia in his lungs....We have lost the ability to communicate with the Almighty directly, and not thru some nebulous or imagined voiced that we attribute to God....

[debbym]

thanks joeb,

our condition of self love, is like an incurable disease, we cannot see past it, we cannot fix it, it cannot humanly be changed, we must have a higher power to dethrone our ego.

it can be so subtle beyond all comprehension, we must have a miracle to save us from it. the scriptures through the Holy Spirit are the litmus test of divine source to make it possible to become aware it is there pulling our own strings.

and when it is at the base of church disagreement, only prayer can restore peace and understanding beyond the power of the ego.

[BobRyan]

From the OP - I was expecting to see posts that follow with something like....

here are the differences for the local congregation I attend:

1.

2.

3.

4.

[joeb]

I would add, to your last sentence, the most important part of the restoration is surrender of self to God. Prayer is good. It is necessary. But by itself, without the surrender of self, it will do no good for we will not be praying in accordance with God's will. We will be praying in accordance with our unsanctified will.

[debbym]

yes Joeb,

that is the single most important condition for receiving Gods blessings in unity of Church members.

yes yes yes.

we surrender in prayer.

[Restin]

I live in an area where there are numerous SDA churches within driving distance, and I also was raised in the SDA church school system. I've been to churches where the leadership pushes it that if you don't belong to their particular branch, you are apostasizing. Also to churches that claim if you don't pay your tithe to a Conference SDA church, you're going to hell. And also to some churches that are severely dividing and infected with New Age, Wicca beliefs. I have personal friends in all these churches.

After all that, I'm beginning to think of my Adventist community as a sort of quasi-functional family just the same as each of us has our own family tree that includes mostly "normal", hardworking, responsible citizens, with always a few odd members we worry over, try to help, or have to let go their way. I have a favorite church which is to me closer to the pioneer Adventist movement and Spirit of Prophecy, but I don't regard even it as perfect. So, just saying, it may help to think of the various SDA churches as family instead of trying to be judge and jury on the "correctness" of each one, and so eager to "divorce" or "shun" the "deviant". Maybe good, solid people need to stay in a church going astray, to help restore and stabilize it. Just some thoughts.

[Naomi]

[Gregory Matthews]

This response is not to any specific person.

There are some things that are of central importance.

There are some things that are of value, but not of central importance.

There are some things that are of interest, and of limited value.

I picture in my mind a target. In the center is the bulls eye. Surrounding it, at greater distances, are a series of rings.

To all posting here, what have you determined in your mind is the most important, the bulls eye, issue in Christian thought, belief and practice?

I have determined what that is in my thinking.

[CoAspen]

[debbym]

Bulls eye "God is Love"

Grasping and sharing God's divine love and mercy to all people expressed in Jesus, His life death and intercession, and received through the Holy Spirit.

the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.

Love is the source of all provision for every need.