Religious persecution - the flip side.

[M. T. Cross]

This is an email from a Christian group to the Asatru Raven Radio program. Within hours of receiving this email one of the hosts of RR had an arson fire set at his place and lost considerable property. (this is a direct cut and paste - the spelling is how it was sent)

Quote:

This affornt to God that you all persue is inflamintory to God and his work on earth. You all will be washed in his fire for offending his name, and offending the good god fearing people of his land. You are no better than them damn muslems who are blowing each other up. Mayvbe you all should blow each other up and quit offending God. Plus the mixings of races is terribloe and your talk about the goods points of gays and fags and such is painful to listen to.Sease and disist orders are issued and you will be let be. Keep on and .................................................. .................

[JoeMo]

That totally sucks MT. Whoever wrote that might claim to be a "Christian" group, but their post looks like it was written by some inbred Arian Neo-Nazi moron. Only a fake misinformed miscreant imbecile would write trash like that and then destroy someone else's property. This is the work of a follower of satan or some other demonic force who is either pretending to be or misrepresenting himself (or herself) as a Christian. Sorry to say (but you are likely already aware) that there are evil "Christans" just like there are evil pagans, Muslims, Hindus, athiests, etc.

[M. T. Cross]

On the surface you are absolutely right Joe. But if one is to be honest, how many times have you seen this kind of attitude in the Christian world? How many of these attitudes have you seen here at C/A?

This affront to God that you all pursue is inflamitory to God and his work on earth. You all will be washed in his fire for offending his name, and offending the good god fearing people of his land.

the mixing of races is terrible and your talk about the goods points of gays and fags and such is painful to listen to.

I have seen these attitudes here and in the real world. I have seen them from people that would be shocked and dismayed at the above email.

[BobRyan]

This is an email from a Christian group to the Asatru Raven Radio program. ....

So then... you are coming out "against" the dark ages?

This has been one of the messages that the SDA church has been sending out. That we should be "against" the dark ages rather than finding ways to reinstate it.

But the dark ages did not come about simply because Christians know the difference between right and wrong. It came about when a certain denomination decided to punish people that did not worship God according to the dictates of one religious group.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I actually tried that out over at Spectrum - arguing that we should be "against the dark ages" idea of "exterminating" those who differ with us on theology and we should all agree that exterminating others for their beliefs is wrong. The thread got shut down because I had asked that one of the Catholic members join me in taking that tolerant view of others.

How sad.

in Christ,

Bob

[JoeMo]

I agree, MT; this same attitude (although not to this extreme) exists among some here on CA. "You either think like me, or get ready for the lake of fire" mentality. Sad thing is that this attitude exists on both sides - the liberals (saved by grace) and the conservatives (saved by works). Even sadder to say, I have pulled that card myself on occasion.

God forgive me right now for doing things that I am now condemning others for doing. Help me to realize that threatening or intimidating people with judgement and condemnation can be as bed for one's own karma as actually doing them.

[CoAspen]

con·serv·a·tive adjective

1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.

One of the biggest issues is the 'bolded' words above with those who fear change, whatever the organiztion or group that holds those ideas as being the 'only' way. It is a fear of the future, fear of being wrong, fear of those persons/ideas that are differant.

In the religious arena, one could call it stagnation. Belief systems are not seen as dynamic but set in stone. No progress is seen in the view of God from the OT to the one Christ came to portray. It is a form of luddism! If it was good enough 4k years ago, then it is good enough for today! I believe those persons with that view are truly afraid of the God they believe in, which is an anchient view of the 'Gods' and considered a pagan belief by Christians!!!

Figure that one out!!!!

[JoeMo]

I CAN'T figure it out CoAspen! While it's true that God doesn't change, people do change, culture changes; and so do circumstances. I haven't changed that much in the past 10 years, but my current teenage kids sure have. So even though I'm pretty much the same guy I was when my kids were little, I relate to them a lot differently now than I did then. Doesn't it make sense that, since His kids, culture, and circumstances have changed over the past several thousand years, our Father would relate to us differently than He did then? Didn't Jesus change everything?

[thx4mercy]

the liberals (saved by grace) and the conservatives (saved by works).

Are you saying that all Christians who are living a "conservative" lifestyle think they are saved by works?

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

This is an email from a Christian group to the Asatru Raven Radio program. ....

So then... you are coming out "against" the dark ages?

in Christ,

Bob

Ummmm........... yeah Bob, I don't think anyone should force religion on anybody in any way shape or form. The kind of mentality I posted is the extreme and is very frightening.

[BobRyan]

Agreed. That dark ages style "thought police" tactic is certainly a bad thing.

The SDA view of end time events informs us that this dark ages style mentality will eventually resurface as the dominant form of religion world-wide and will begin in a very significant way in the U.S.

in Christ,

Bob

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Are you saying that all Christians who are living a "conservative" lifestyle think they are saved by works?

Not all. Nothing applies to "all" or "none". But IMO in general, conservatives believe that if (as a liberal) you rely on grace rather than anything short of perfect obedience for salvation, you are claiming to be saved "in your sin" rather than "from your sin". The usual bible and EGW quotes revolve around having any unconfessed sin, or committing even the slightest sin after the end of probation results in being toasted in the lake of fire.

[JoeMo]

Hey MT,

Are the people whose house was burned down OK? Have their been any additional incidents? Do the police have anyone in custody yet? I hope they are caught and prosecuted to the full extent of Canada's hate crime laws. Were they people that you knew?

[M. T. Cross]

From what I understand it was not their house that got burned, it was an outbuilding on their property. This group is from New Mexico and the local sheriff department and fire officials are involved and have had a copy of the email turned over to them as well.

On another note. My reason for posting this thread is not to say that all Christians are like this. In part it is to point out that this kind of persecution affects everyone. It is something that all people can face. To note as well, Raven Radio got a similar threatening email from an Asatru based neo-nazi group a month ago as well. As always they stand strong to their beliefs and will not be swayed by threats and slander. I hope that in the face of such an event each of us, no matter Christian, Pagan, or Atheist, would have that kind of strength and the resolve to not perpetuate acts of hate like this on anyone else.

[Naomi]

Hummm not that I know everything that happens in Okla but I do receive police bulletins and catch the news. This is the first I have heard of it ... interesting.

[OzarkWoman]

I agree, MT; this same attitude (although not to this extreme) exists among some here on CA. "You either think like me, or get ready for the lake of fire" mentality. Sad thing is that this attitude exists on both sides - the liberals (saved by grace) and the conservatives (saved by works). Even sadder to say, I have pulled that card myself on occasion.

God forgive me right now for doing things that I am now condemning others for doing. Help me to realize that threatening or intimidating people with judgement and condemnation can be as bed for one's own karma as actually doing them.

I have to know if you are using the words liberals and conservatives as political words?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

**off topic**

"Hail to the speaker, Hail to the knower,

Joy to him who has understood,

Delight to those who have listened." - Havamal

**guffaw, guffaw**

**back to topic**

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I have to know if you are using the words liberals and conservatives as political words?

OW; No; I'm not using them as defining political stance as much as I am using them to define religious stance. One can be religiously liberal and politically conservative; and vice-versa. Even in the political arena, one can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative and vice-versa. In the religious world, one can be spiritually conservative regarding how he/she applies spiritual law to him/herself; but a liberal concerning how other people apply it to themselves. For example, I know many Adventists who would never allow alcohol to pass their lips; but they are close freinds with other SDA's who do drink.

Please note this is an EXAMPLE; not a jumping off point for a debate of whether or not we should accept people who drink alcohol or coffee; or wear jewelry.

[M. T. Cross]

Oh you done started it now Joe!

I will just sit here playing with my ring and drinking coffee with Bailey's.............

[phkrause]

Quote:

I have to know if you are using the words liberals and conservatives as political words?

OW; No; I'm not using them as defining political stance as much as I am using them to define religious stance. One can be religiously liberal and politically conservative; and vice-versa. Even in the political arena, one can be socially liberal and fiscally conservative and vice-versa. In the religious world, one can be spiritually conservative regarding how he/she applies spiritual law to him/herself; but a liberal concerning how other people apply it to themselves. For example, I know many Adventists who would never allow alcohol to pass their lips; but they are close freinds with other SDA's who do drink.

Please note this is an EXAMPLE; not a jumping off point for a debate of whether or not we should accept people who drink alcohol or coffee; or wear jewelry.

[JoeMo]

Yum! I'm chillin out with my favorite beverage and wachin' football.

[debbym]

Ya this is really scary.

it is God alone who brings judgement in his time. Judgement does come, but not according our opinions, judgments, or biases.

God alone can see the heart.