The Stigmata

[M. T. Cross]

I would love to hear what various people think of this phenom?

[Q.E.D.]

I would love to hear what various people think of this phenom?

It is Satanic.

[M. T. Cross]

Why?

[Q.E.D.]

Why?

God made blood to stay inside you.

[M. T. Cross]

So any time a person bleeds its satanic?

[Q.E.D.]

So any time a person bleeds its satanic?

I knew you would try that.

I suppose in a strange sort of way you are right. God never intended for people to bleed.

[M. T. Cross]

I am not "trying" anything. I am simply wanting to understand your brief point of saying its Satanic simply because it involves blood. I can not for a minute think that even there were no sin that we would have never cut ourselves as caretakers of the earth.

[Q.E.D.]

I am simply wanting to understand your brief point of saying its Satanic simply because it involves blood. I can not for a minute think that even there were no sin that we would have never cut ourselves as caretakers of the earth.

Methinks in a perfect "pre-sin" world there would be no cuts or any kind of injury.

The self-inflicted stigmata or unexplainable mysterious manifestations cannot be from God since they are damaging to the "holy temple of God".

[M. T. Cross]

So you don't think that the stigmata is ever spontaneous? You think all cases of it were self inflicted?

[M. T. Cross]

I want to add that I have no real opinion on it. I have just always found it interesting.

[Q.E.D.]

So you don't think that the stigmata is ever spontaneous? You think all cases of it were self inflicted?

No to both.

Q.E.D. previous - "The self-inflicted stigmata or unexplainable mysterious manifestations cannot be from God since they are damaging to the "holy temple of God".

[M. T. Cross]

Methinks in a perfect "pre-sin" world there would be no cuts or any kind of injury.

Was our skin different then do you think? I mean you can cut yourself with a blade of grass...

Not disagreeing in theory just wondering about the logistics of your thoughts.

[M. T. Cross]

Q.E.D. previous - "The self-inflicted stigmata or unexplainable mysterious manifestations cannot be from God since they are damaging to the "holy temple of God".

Yes but you say self inflicted too

But fasting in the desert is damaging to the body as well.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Methinks in a perfect "pre-sin" world there would be no cuts or any kind of injury.

Was our skin different then do you think? I mean you can cut yourself with a blade of grass...

Not disagreeing in theory just wondering about the logistics of your thoughts.

It has to do with the providence of God and his protection from any kind of harm. In Eden there was no death, decay or any harmful things the same will be true in the new heavens and earth.

In fact the providence of God and His protection even applies today in this fallen, sinful world for the children of God and also the rest of humanity at large. Of course the children of God receive a greater proportional blessing.

[Q.E.D.]

Originally Posted By: Q.E.D.

Q.E.D. previous - "The self-inflicted stigmata or unexplainable mysterious manifestations cannot be from God since they are damaging to the "holy temple of God".

Yes but you say self inflicted too

But fasting in the desert is damaging to the body as well.

The statement "self-inflicted or unexplalinable mysterious manifestations" is not a meant to be a statement of equivalency. Rather it is a summation of the two types that occur.

Fasting in the desert may be damaging to the body in some aspects. I do not know. From all that I have read fasting is very beneficial as long as you are not starving to death.

[M. T. Cross]

Fair enough, I think I misread your original post and missed the OR between the self inflicted and the mysterious.

However if I were to subscribe to anything as being Satanic, I'm not sure that mysterious manifestations would fall under that category simply because they cause some physical harm.

Here is another way to put it. Based on the biblical theory we have fallen to sin. Along with that came physical imperfections. So spending night after night in prayer can damage your knees. Tending a beautiful rose garden will without a doubt cut you and make you bleed.There are all sorts of examples. So if Christ were to manifest his wounds upon you, to test you with a portion of the suffering he endured, then due to our fallen sinful nature - one will bleed.

Just a theory of course.

[Q.E.D.]

So if Christ were to manifest his wounds upon you, to test you with a portion of the suffering he endured, then due to our fallen sinful nature - one will bleed.

Just a theory of course.

Somehow that,(manifesting his painful wounds upon a person), just doesn't sound like something Jesus Christ would do to someone.

[M. T. Cross]

On the surface I would agree, given the story of Jesus and how his personal character is portrayed.

However if you subscribe to the theory that the OT God IS Jesus and not the Father of, then all one has to do is look at some of the torment that he facilitated for Job. Now one can say that Satan did those things to Job, and as the story goes that is true. But those things were done on what basically amounts to a dare or a bet between the OT God and Satan.

[Q.E.D.]

But those things were done on what basically amounts to a dare or a bet between the OT God and Satan.

Methinks more like an open challenge against God that Job would only care about himself in circumstances of extreme adversity and would soon abandon his allegiance to God. God could not ignore the challenge without Satan claiming that his accusations were true.

If God did not remove His protection from Job and let Satan have his way with him then Satan could have made a good case against God that those loyal to God only serve Him due to a fear of property loss or loss of life.

As a result of God's lack of response to the challenge of Satan the angels of heaven and the intellegences on other planets would come to believe Satan's accusations that the angels of heaven and all created beings do not need to obey the Laws of God as a standard of allegiance. Satan would then be guiltless of rebellion against God.

[Gustave]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I would love to hear what various people think of this phenom?

It is Satanic.

So this would indicate that when Jesus sweat blood ( Luke 24,44 )....

...Jesus was setting a Satanic example because the blood was coming out of Him.

...Prior to any torture from the outside?

[JoeMo]

Funny how things get twisted from the original topic. In answer to MT's initial question on the stigmata, I think in some cases it is real and comes from God as a sign that a given person has done a good job of reflecting Christ. In some cases it is indeed Satanic as a form of torment to torture people. In some cases it is self-infliced as just another way for a charlatan to indicate the degree of his/her own righteousness. I am in no position to judge which is which; and I am in no position to pontificate upon what God (or any other deity) is allowed to do to indicate His approval or disapproval.

[Textus Receptus]

All stigmata are satanic. Stigmata are a phenomenon which generally manifest itslef with in the Catholic Church. Stigmatism has a long history with in the Catholic Church which interestingly is also starting to manifest in protestant churches albeit rare. One of the most notable is that of Padre Pio.

Satan will use Stigmata as a method of attempting to provide legitimacy to the Catholic Church. Satan would like the world to believe that the Catholic Church is the one true church of God and appeal to most of the world's superstitious beliefs about God. As such, supernatural phenomena will occur with individuals out of churches that are apostate which contradict any examples found within the true apostolic biblical history of the bible. A few examples are crucifixes, idols and holy water that seemly repel demons, and most currently, Glossolalia or more commonly known as speaking in tongues that is currently found in many protestant churches. Simply stated, Satan is a liar.

If we understand God’s divine plan for salvation and His character, we understand that God will not have humans suffer in excruciating pain as many stigmatist do for Him as God had sent his only son to suffer for our transgressions. God will not use “tricks” or provide a gruesome magic show to persuade humanity of His divinity. God, wants us to love Him through the conviction of the heart by faith and faith alone.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

All stigmata are satanic. Stigmata are a phenomenon which generally manifest itslef with in the Catholic Church.

Just your opinion or a universally accepted fact among Christians (not just traditional SDA's)? IMO it is the former.

[phkrause]

Here check this link out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmata

[M. T. Cross]

Thats weird PK, I could have sworn I posted that same link as a second post in this thread but its gone......