Pipe dream, gun owners....

[Neil D]

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=8QjZY3WiO9s&feature=endscreen

Ok, you watched the video...what do you say, gun owners? Is having armed people at school going to protect kids??? I don't think so...

[bonnie]

NEIL D

thank you for posting that video--- it was very interesting how those students acted

dgrimm60

As ABC has been known to tailor the results before

http://www.aim.org/publications/special_reports/foodlion.html

what they claim as proof is not necessarily proof.

I think NBC has done same.

The dufus fumbling for a gun under a oversized T-shirt leaves a few questions.

I have never taken gun training but worked with several women that did. Not only initially to obtain a permit,but ongoing 2- times a month.

With the descriptions of their training a gun would not have been under a long T-shirt.

Funny how the shooter knew who in the room had a gun.Instead of someone playing the "nutjob" that wants to kill people they use a trained expert.

Might be very easy to manipulate results that way

[Neil D]

As ABC has been known to tailor the results

[snip]

Might be very easy to manipulate results that way

That's not what the cops say...if they don't continue to practice, they say that they loose thier training within a months time....And you are saying that getting certified ONCE in your life is enough to qualify you to shoot a mass murderer in your presence?

One of the students in this video said they shot thier perp in the head, when the bullet was shown to be in the leg....I think you gun owners are living in an ideal world when reality is, when the gun comes out, our world changes very radically and differently...

[bonnie]

That's not what the cops say...if they don't continue to practice, they say that they loose thier training within a months time....And you are saying that getting certified ONCE in your life is enough to qualify you to shoot a mass murderer in your presence?

[Neil D]

Actually I think it is dishonest for anyone to deliberately misquote someone else [snip].

This alone is suspect. Several of the women I worked with changed their clothing on leaving work for the gun range.[snip]

One of the students? His gun training must have lacked a little if he mistook the leg for a head

generally speaking, bonnie, most people go thru those gun classes ONCE and then they are certified...obviously, your exception to the general rule is MORE IMPORTANT than my speaking about the general public...

As for the "bulky clothes" comment, generally speaking, the style to CONCEAL a weapon is to hide it, which again, generally calls for "bulky clothes"...otherwise, if it shows or if you are 'fiddling with it" like one of the students, it kinda shows up in the gunman's sights...

As for the training, my question to you is if you actually watched the video??? Because the experience the student had in practicing with guns was over 100 hours...and he demonstrated that he could shoot....

Here part two....if that got you upset, Bonnie, this should make you furious...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg

[bonnie]

generally speaking, bonnie, most people go thru those gun classes ONCE and then they are certified...obviously, your exception to the general rule is MORE IMPORTANT than my speaking about the general public...

[bonnie]

Here part two....if that got you upset, Bonnie, this should make you furious...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLN6_s66wTg

Neil,I hate to dash your hopes but you lack the ability to make me upset or furious by what you say or the links you provide.

Yes,I watched the first video and will get around to the second when I have time.

As ABC has shown in the past to be willing to provide a less than honest review to prove their point,I don't get to worked up over their results

[Neil D]

Neil,I hate to dash your hopes but you lack the ability to make me upset or furious by what you say or the links you provide.

Yes,I watched the first video and will get around to the second when I have time.

As ABC has shown in the past to be willing to provide a less than honest review to prove their point,I don't get to worked up over their results

ya know, Bonnie, from your posts over the years, have been just totally downers....the tone has always been one of "I disagree with you just to disagree with you"...In fact, others have told me that when they agreed with you, you still disagreed with them....Now, if that doesn't tell me that you are upset at SOMETHING, nothing will...even your denial that you are NOT upset...So, not even counting the experiences that you and I have had, I AM going by what others have said from this board...

So, dont tell me that you 'hope not to dash my hopes" because you know that is a lie...

And I am tired going down this road with you, all the negativity and hatred of anything that is constructively said here...So, I am hoping for something a bit more positive and constructive from this forum...maybe not from you, being that you will not show that side of yourself, but maybe from others who will see some sort of reason....

So, knowing the physiology of the human body, what the officers said was spot on...Why should I disregard anything else from these video that looked to be rather well done....

None of these students, some with extensive training, got a killing shot in any scenerio...Some nearly kill bystanders because they didnt see them, some didn't see other threats...And police officers say that THEY loose thier abilitys if they are not training over a month duration....the obvious question is, why do I want armed guards in schools when the armed guards are not capable of doing thier job......

[OzarkWoman]

I think you gun owners are living in an ideal world when reality is, when the gun comes out, our world changes very radically and differently...

I think anti-gun people are living in a fantasy world to think that more laws or outlawing guns are going to make gun crimes happen less.

[Neil D]

I think anti-gun people are living in a fantasy world to think that more laws or outlawing guns are going to make gun crimes happen less.

And based the videos that I have shown, your world of a gun toting bystander calmly taking out a bad guy is more realistic????

Now, who is living in a fantasy world....

You still haven't answer the questions as to why a Christian needs guns in the first place?

[bonnie]

years, have been just totally downers....the tone has always been one of "I disagree with you just to disagree with you"...In fact, others have told me that when they agreed with you, you still disagreed with them....Now, if that doesn't tell me that you are upset at SOMETHING, nothing will...even your denial that you are NOT upset...So, not even counting the experiences that you and I have had, I AM going by what others have said from this board...

[Tom Wetmore]

As ABC has been known to tailor the results before

http://www.aim.org/publications/special_reports/foodlion.html

what they claim as proof is not necessarily proof.

I think NBC has done same.

The dufus fumbling for a gun under a oversized T-shirt leaves a few questions.

I have never taken gun training but worked with several women that did. Not only initially to obtain a permit,but ongoing 2- times a month.

With the descriptions of their training a gun would not have been under a long T-shirt.

Funny how the shooter knew who in the room had a gun.Instead of someone playing the "nutjob" that wants to kill people they use a trained expert.

Might be very easy to manipulate results that way

What you fail to account for is that many of the mass shooting assailants are already ready, prepared, and on high alert with the element of surprise. They will be anticipating resistance and already have their weapon drawn with finger on the trigger ready to fire. They are causing the chaos and confusion and have situational control in the first critical seconds. Experienced experts will tell you that the critical first few seconds it takes the average person to get their weapon out take it off safety, aim and return fire is too late since the initial shooter can unload almost an entire clip in that amount of time.

And since you would rather doubt and discount ABC or NBC how about this report from the pro-gun experts themselves that absolutely confirms the validity of the point made by the ABC report. - http://www.vpc.org/studies/unincont.htm

[bonnie]

What you fail to account for is that many of the mass shooting assailants are already ready, prepared, and on high alert with the element of surprise.

[Tom Wetmore]

Read the report.

[bonnie]

Most people that have a Carry/Conceal permit do not have that

for the probability that they are going to confront and stop or kill a mass murderer.

If availability of weapons are responsible explain those area's that have easy access to guns and have a low crime rate.

Either the town in Ga that requires homeowners to have a firearm have a town without nut jobs/criminal or just plain evil people. If availability is the culprit this should be a place rife with criminal activity and homicides.

Chicago has very strict gun laws and lots of dead people due to homicides by guns.

The couple of years I spent in a public high school,I can't recall a boy over the age of 13 that didn't have a least one and many times more.Gifts from the parents.Is it because these guns did not have the same capabilities as those today that we did not have frequent murders{actually didn't have any)or is there something else going on? Something that the battle cry of "We need more laws" can fix?

My brother lives in a area of WY that is still pretty rugged and conservative.Everyone has guns,everyone knows that and most rarely if ever lock their doors. No one commits mass murder because of the easy access.

I am from northern Mn,same is true in many area's there. In every home of a relative I go to there are guns on a rack.Not locked up with ammunition in a separate place.Right out in the open.Yet a homicide is very rare and often as not the few times it happens a gun is not the manner of death. Very seldom is a door locked to prevent breakins

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

I think anti-gun people are living in a fantasy world to think that more laws or outlawing guns are going to make gun crimes happen less.

And based the videos that I have shown, your world of a gun toting bystander calmly taking out a bad guy is more realistic????

Now, who is living in a fantasy world....

You still haven't answer the questions as to why a Christian needs guns in the first place?

PROTECTION. Do you understand what that word means? Also, hunting. You do know what hunting is, don't you?

And when did I ever say that bystanders were going to shoot the bad guys? That came from you, not me. You really need to get a grip and know what you are talking about and who you think said certain things.

I am sorry, but anti-anythibng people are fanatics.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

And based the videos that I have shown, your world of a gun toting bystander calmly taking out a bad guy is more realistic????

Now, who is living in a fantasy world....

You still haven't answer the questions as to why a Christian needs guns in the first place?

PROTECTION. Do you understand what that word means? Also, hunting. You do know what hunting is, don't you?

And when did I ever say that bystanders were going to shoot the bad guys? That came from you, not me. You really need to get a grip and know what you are talking about and who you think said certain things.

I am sorry, but anti-anythibng people are fanatics.

And the same can be said the other way. But you haven't answered his question. I interested in your answer to that, because there is an answer, but your not gonna get any help from me.

But I will give a little story. My father who was laid off from his job, got a job from a Jeweler maker down in Manhattan. One of the requirements was to carry a gun, licensed one of course, he refused. Telling the owner that he didn't believe God wanted him to carry a gun, and besides I think he was afraid he'd probably shoot himself. Anyway the boss told him OK but that they've had a number of there couriers rob at gun point in the previous 3-5 years. But my father said no. They hired him anyway. He worked there the next 5+ years and they never had any hold ups in that time on my fathers run, others were but not my father.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

You still haven't answer the questions as to why a Christian needs guns in the first place?

PROTECTION. Do you understand what that word means? Also, hunting. You do know what hunting is, don't you?

And when did I ever say that bystanders were going to shoot the bad guys? That came from you, not me. You really need to get a grip and know what you are talking about and who you think said certain things.

I am sorry, but anti-anythibng people are fanatics.

'PROTECTION'...again, why does a follower of Christ need protection with a gun when he has the God of the Universe who loves and protects him? Doesn't the carrying of a gun show a lack of faith in that same God?

"hunting" ...yes, I do understand hunting...but again, why does a SDA Christian need to eat meat when they are encouraged to avoid it and get thier food from plants?

You may remember a parable of a judge asking you if you were an SDA Christian and if there is enough evidence to convict you.........

you have not provided evidence from the NT that a Christian should have a weapon ...but I have provided evidence that to depend upon a weapon for protection is a lack of faith in God's protection....

I have also shown evidence that an SDA Christian does not need meat for food. in fact, the book "counsels on diet and food" shows that we are to eat from the best that the land has to offer...and preferably plant foods....

So, the need for a gun in SDA Christian circles would primarily show a lack of faith in the books of EGW and the bible.....

What say you, Osark woman? Wouldn't you say that your lack of faith is more of a fanatical nature than those of us who believe?

[OzarkWoman]

So, now you want to control what I eat also. It figures. That is what is wrong with you libs. You want to control, and not for the good of anyone but yourself and your feelings. YOU are not anyone who can honestly say what a good SDA would do or be about. You are exactly what scares people away from your denomination.

BTW, you have shown nothing, as far as I am concerned, except to show what an egotistical person you are. You talk about others but there is no way you follow Jesus' teachings the way you post in this forum.