11,000 v 35

[lazarus]

This interview seems like some conversations I've had on CA about this issue.

[Gail]

Maybe she has an answer:

Giffords trying to tackle the gunshot violence problem

[OzarkWoman]

This interview seems like some conversations I've had on CA about this issue.

\

Well yeah, Alex Jones is conservative and you are liberal. What would you expect. And Piers...well he is a European socialist and he is not that smart either and sure seems to hate what this country was founded upon.

[bonnie]

Well yeah, Alex Jones is conservative and you are liberal. What would you expect. And Piers...well he is a European socialist and he is not that smart either and sure seems to hate what this country was founded upon.

Seems I read where there was a petition to deport him.Poor guy,his home country said,Oh no you don't we don't want him back. LOL

[lazarus]

Well yeah, Alex Jones is conservative and you are liberal. What would you expect. And Piers...well he is a European socialist and he is not that smart either and sure seems to hate what this country was founded upon.

Do you write scripts for Alex Jones?

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

Well yeah, Alex Jones is conservative and you are liberal. What would you expect. And Piers...well he is a European socialist and he is not that smart either and sure seems to hate what this country was founded upon.

Do you write scripts for Alex Jones?

Do you write for Obama?

[lazarus]

Do you write for Obama?

I wish I did but unfortunately I'm not that good.

[fccool]

Hitler grabbed guns? Where in the world does this guy gets this stuff?

Hitler and NAZIs actually made gun ownership a lot easier in Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany

Just by hearing Alex Jones rave, it should be quite obvious that the guy is a psychopath.

[bonnie]

Hitler grabbed guns? Where in the world does this guy gets this stuff?

Hitler and NAZIs actually made gun ownership a lot easier in Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany

Just by hearing Alex Jones rave, it should be quite obvious that the guy is a psychopath.

Probably from the fact Jews were forbidden to have guns

Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons

11 November 1938

With a basis in § 31 of the Weapons Law of 18 March 1928 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 265), Article III of the Law on the Reunification of Austria with Germany of 13 March 1938 (Reichsgesetzblatt I, p. 237), and § 9 of the Fuhrer and Chancellor's decree on the administration of the Sudeten-German districts of 1 October 1928 (Reichsgesetzblatt 1, p. 1331 ) are the following ordered:

§ 1

Jews (§ 5 of the First Regulations of the German Citizenship Law of 14 November 1935, Reichsgesetzblatt 1, p. 1332) are prohibited from acquiring. Possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition, as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons. Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority.

§ 2

Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation.

§ 3

The Minister of the Interior may make exceptions to the Prohibition in § 1 for Jews who are foreign nationals. He can entrust other authorities with this power.

§ 4

Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions of § 1 will be punished with imprisonment and a fine. In especially severe cases of deliberate violations, the punishment is imprisonment in a penitentiary for up to five years.

§ 5

For the implementation if this regulation, the Minister of the Interior waives the necessary legal and administrative provisions.

§ 6

This regulation is valid in the state of Austria and in the Sudeten-German districts.

Berlin, 11 November 1938

Minister of the Interior

Frick

[Neil D]

Do you write scripts for Alex Jones?

I'm glad I am not associated with a psycho like Alex Jones....That man has demons that no pill can help....

[Ted Oplinger]

Hitler grabbed guns? Where in the world does this guy gets this stuff?

Hitler and NAZIs actually made gun ownership a lot easier in Germany:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Germany

Just by hearing Alex Jones rave, it should be quite obvious that the guy is a psychopath.

You are seriously quoting wikipedia as a serious reference?

Perhaps you need to consider other sources, maybe?

There are plenty of more reputable sources, pro and con on German gun policies from 1930-1945. Most of it was simple full gun registration. It was the ability of the government bureaucracy to place unilateral - and unaccountable - restrictions and prohibitions on the flow of guns and ammunition which gives it the aura of total gun control.

To be fair, Hitler didn't "grab the guns", so to speak. He didn't even pass the laws. The laws were passed by the Weimar Republic prior to Hitler's popular election, in the attempt to keep the guns out of the hands of the Nazis.

All Hitler did was swap the categories as to who was unable to obtain guns at any price, and change the people groups the government bureaucrats placed onerous restrictions and prohibitions on. The day after Krystallnacht", these changes went into effect, along with the propaganda campaign labeling Jews and others dangerous enemies of the state.

Any population group deemed "lesser" or "undesirable" was denied access to firearms. While deemed by some to be a minor role in the Holocaust, the truth is had these people been armed, Hitler would not have been able to pull off such atrocities with the ease that he did.

Much of the focus of the German gun policies under Hitler is to a) make Hitler seem a lot more "reasonable" than he was, dispense with American anti-control as "hysteria", and c) place the new efforts by our current administration in a better light.

Trouble is...people are voting with their $$, and are making their purchases now.

Blessings.

[fccool]

Quote:

You are seriously quoting wikipedia as a serious reference? Perhaps you need to consider other sources, maybe?

That Wikipedia article does cite other sources, which they derive their info from. For example, here are the sources cited in this article:

^ Treaty of Versailles: Articles 159-213; Military, Naval, and Air Clauses

^ Verordnung des Rates der Volksbeauftragen über Waffenbesitz, Reichsgesetzblatt 1919, Volume I, § 1, page 31–32.

^ Halbrook, Stephen P. (2000) "Nazi Firearms Law and the Disarming of the German Jews." Arizona Journal of International and Comparative Law, Vol 17. No. 3. p.494.

^ Harcourt, Bernard E (2004) "On the NRA, Adolph Hitler, Gun Registration, and the Nazi Gun Laws: Exploding the Culture Wars (A Call to Historians)" p 20.

^ a b c Harcourt, page 21

^ Harcourt, page 22

^ Halbrook, Stephen P. (2000) "Nazi Firearms Law and the Disarming of the German Jews." Arizona Journal of International and Comparative Law, Vol 17. No. 3. p.528.

^ Police of North Rhine-Westphalia on History of German Weapons Law (german)

Quote:

There are plenty of more reputable sources, pro and con on German gun policies from 1930-1945. Most of it was simple full gun registration. It was the ability of the government bureaucracy to place unilateral - and unaccountable - restrictions and prohibitions on the flow of guns and ammunition which gives it the aura of total gun control.

Neither I nor article says anything to the contrary. That's not what Alex Jones was ranting about though. Most of the Law-Abiding, non-Jewish Germans could own firearms with some stipulations.

Quote:

To be fair, Hitler didn't "grab the guns", so to speak. He didn't even pass the laws. The laws were passed by the Weimar Republic prior to Hitler's popular election, in the attempt to keep the guns out of the hands of the Nazis.

Again, if you read the article, it outlines all of this fairly well. The guns ownership was outlawed in Germany post WWI. The restrictions were then lifted. That's why it's an outright BS to say that Hitler and NAZI grabbed guns. They actually gave the guns back in 1938 by alleviating a lot of these requirements. He did not come to power through sheer dictatorial military rule. He came to power through propaganda machine which NAZI was, as it absorbed any opposition. Germans loved Hitler.

Quote:

Any population group deemed "lesser" or "undesirable" was denied access to firearms. While deemed by some to be a minor role in the Holocaust, the truth is had these people been armed, Hitler would not have been able to pull off such atrocities with the ease that he did.

If Jews owned guns and fired back at NAZIs, it would only approved Hitler in the eyes of Germans, and it would actually make it much easier to accomplish that goal. Germans already hated Zionist faction for selling them out during WWI, and plunging the nation into deep debt and destitute as a looser nation. Jews were scapegoated for it before Hitler even risen to power. Martin Luther, for example, had a little book called "Of Jews and their lies"... which played a great deal paving a way to the Holocaust, yet this guy is the hero of reformation and modern protestantism

The point being, Jews owning the guns would not have helped much. Perhaps they could have put up a fight, but it would not have been much of a fight. It would only worsen the situation for every Jew who actually did.

Quote:

Much of the focus of the German gun policies under Hitler is to a) make Hitler seem a lot more "reasonable" than he was, dispense with American anti-control as "hysteria", and c) place the new efforts by our current administration in a better light.

Not really, although you may think so through a certain historical lens. Although he was a maniac, Hitler was a patriot who was building stronger Germany. He was pro German gun ownership, and, of course he was anti-gun ownership for any conquered nation.

Quote:

Trouble is...people are voting with their $$, and are making their purchases now.

Quite the opposite. Money decides the vote in politics, not people voting with their money. If corporate America did not want Obama in the White House, he would not be there. Period. Much of the Obama campaign contributions actually comes from some of the richest people / corporations in the world.

The irony is, while people are arguing endlessly about the false security blankets, like guns, they are being robbed and enslaved without use of any. It was the case in NAZI Germany, and it's certainly the case now.

[Neil D]

getting back to the thread....

[video:youtube]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/10...kusaolp00000009

What is Peirs Morgan trying to say?

[Ted Oplinger]

Wikipedia may cite other sources more reputable, yes, but it is the fact Wikipedia is an open-edit source (meaning anyone can place anything in there, whether it is factual to the matter or not).

If local schools frown on my children using Wikipedia for their homework, then the same careful nuance is extended to adult conversations as well.

As for the article - I did read it. Quite thoroughly. Found the exact same information elsewhere.

I referenced the Hitler policy simply because of its current usage on both sides of the argument. I do believe I stated Hitler was elected by popular vote. And yes, he was very popular in the beginning. But it was the administration before Hitler's that passed those laws restoring gun ownership, in the effort to keep arms out of the Nazi's hands. In a cruel twist, Hitler used his election to turn the tables on his political enemies, as well as the Jews.

Quote:

If Jews owned guns and fired back at NAZIs, it would only approved Hitler in the eyes of Germans, and it would actually make it much easier to accomplish that goal. Germans already hated Zionist faction for selling them out during WWI, and plunging the nation into deep debt and destitute as a looser nation. Jews were scapegoated for it before Hitler even risen to power. Martin Luther, for example, had a little book called "Of Jews and their lies"... which played a great deal paving a way to the Holocaust, yet this guy is the hero of reformation and modern protestantism

The point being, Jews owning the guns would not have helped much. Perhaps they could have put up a fight, but it would not have been much of a fight. It would only worsen the situation for every Jew who actually did.

That may be true...but that lies with the realm of maybe, just like my statement of armed resistance by the German Jews. Bigger bloodbath earlier? maybe. Holocaust lessened? maybe.

Not all Jews exterminated in the Holocaust were German. Significant numbers were from areas Germany conquered and imposed its laws. There, the Jew could have mounted armed resistance, especially if they went underground.

Anti-Semitism was a huge problem, though, all across Europe and in the US, at that time.

Martin Luther was well-known for it. It is quite evident he still cherry-picked his Bible usage, as did his companion Melancthon, on the subject.

Hmmm...a certain historical lens? While Hitler was a consumate German patriot, and was well-adept in inflaming German pride against their traditional European foes (England, France, Russia), it does not take away the fact he was a maniac using his political persuasion to tailor fire-arm policies in ways that devalued and denigrated any person not on the "favorables" list - much like what is beginning to be done here. That was my point.

Quote:

Quite the opposite. Money decides the vote in politics, not people voting with their money. If corporate America did not want Obama in the White House, he would not be there. Period. Much of the Obama campaign contributions actually comes from some of the richest people / corporations in the world.

You did not understand what I meant.

People voting with their wallets, their $$, means they are electing to buy firearms - for whatever reason - in record manners, in direct contradiction to the policies of those who won the election.

Our president claims a mandate for his party and policies from the election - including gun control. The compliant media - our modern propaganda outlet, despite the many lettered outlet sources, proclaims the same.

The public, though, is doing something very different.

Obama wants to protect the wealthy and the powerful. The American people want to protect themselves.

The way things are going, though, being a conservative is becoming the new "Jew" in this new experimentation of forming the "American Reich". Is New Hampshire the wave of the future? Intelligent minds pray not.

Oh...and back to the topic at hand

[fccool]

If we are going back to the topic, I think it's quite obvious that Pierce Morgan invited Alex Jones on the program to give an exhibit A of a gun lunatic, and Jones did just that.

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/Nu6YdzG4eUs

It's always convenient to speak about invalidity of the "miltary-grade" firearms, until you are faced with a gang of thugs looting your home during a riot or a disaster event.

Obviously it's a complex issue, but all of the possibilities should be considered.

CNN tactics in this case was pretty obvious though. The moment he asked about 9-11 attacks, I right away thought... ok, this guy is there to link gun supporters with lunatics "fighting imaginary Hitler".

And sure enough, Alan Dershivitz is there to say that.

[OzarkWoman]

Not to mention the anti-gun nut that Morgan shows so well. The at a later time Morgan tlaked about shooting Jones. Yeah, like Morgan is some upstanding person to listen to. In fact, the UK doesn't even want him back.