bonnie Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 What Piers Morgan Does Not Tell You About UK Homicides Yossi Gestetner If you watched any of the recent segments by Piers Morgan on guns, you certainly came across how he proudly waves the stat that only fifty or so people are killed annually in England by guns vs. the 11,000-plus that are killed in the United States. Mr. Morgan points to Britain's tough gun laws of 1997 as the reason why the numbers are low. But there are three major problems with his proud number: 1) If you look at page 32 of this recent UK Home Office report you will see that total Homicides in the U.K. in the years and decades before 1997, were lower than in the States. In other words, it's not as if 2,000 people were gunned down annually in England before the ban and now the numbers came crashing down to fifty a year. Their total homicide rate, by gun or knife, was for decades a fraction compared to the United States. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publication...212?view=Binary 2) In all but one year since 1997, more people have been murdered in the UK than in 1997 (look at page 31 of the above-linked report). So total homicides did not come down despite the Gun Ban. If you want to argue that total murders are up only due to population growth while the rate per 100K is down, wrong again. The numbers are stuck for more than two decades give or take a fraction, while in the United States the rate did drop substantially since 1997 despite people buying "high capacity" magazine guns or whatever it is that the Left hates. 3) Finally, this is a point that everyone makes yet Mr. Morgan decides to ignore: Violent Crimes in the UK is the worst in Europe and is worse than in many third world countries. These sickening numbers started to shape up post 1997. Similiar numbers happened in Australia since their 1996 gun restrictions. For one Tweet: UK homicides were way lower than US even before 1997; Homicides there are up since '97 and violent crimes rocketed since then. Note: When people speak of "crime in the UK," it usually refers to England and Wales combined Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013...l#ixzz2HmQpJ7Lc Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted January 16, 2013 Moderators Posted January 16, 2013 LOL, note that the writer does not quote any figures. If he does we will see how low the figures are. 550 were murdered in the UK in 2011. That works out at an equivalent to 2,750 for a population for the size of the US. The question that needs to be asked is why do Americans find the level of violence here acceptable? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted January 16, 2013 Author Posted January 16, 2013 The question that needs to be asked is why do Americans find the level of violence here acceptable? The question that needs to be asked is why you stretch and twist what has been said. The fact that many people do not believe that responsible gun owners are the ones responsible is different than saying these death rates are acceptable. Many of us would like to see the hysteria directed at those actually causing the problem Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Ted Oplinger Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 You're last statement, Bonnie, is the ringer! The law-abiding citizens are tired of getting trashed about the God-given right of self-defense, and would rather see the emotional hysteria directed to the real source of the issue - the lawlessness of the criminal and his actions. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
bonnie Posted January 17, 2013 Author Posted January 17, 2013 You're last statement, Bonnie, is the ringer! The law-abiding citizens are tired of getting trashed about the God-given right of self-defense, and would rather see the emotional hysteria directed to the real source of the issue - the lawlessness of the criminal and his actions. Blessings, What I would like to see is Obama surrounded by a group photo of black children killed{Saying these could be my sons and daughters) while declaring war on black on black crime Then we could have Sheriff Biden surrounded by a group photo of white children saying same while declaring war on the cause of the majority of homicides in the US. The heads of many would explode at the exploitation.Far better to attack and vilify those they know have a very low likelihood of committing a crime with their guns Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted January 20, 2013 Moderators Posted January 20, 2013 Quote: Many of us would like to see the hysteria directed at those actually causing the problem Americans are causing the problem. The Sandy Hook killer was an American. Americans need to find solutions. What solutions do the gun lobby have except more guns. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 Quote: Many of us would like to see the hysteria directed at those actually causing the problem Americans are causing the problem. The Sandy Hook killer was an American. Americans need to find solutions. What solutions do the gun lobby have except more guns. Who is it you are arguing with.Everything I said is directed at americans...... What I would like to see is Obama surrounded by a group photo of black children killed{Saying these could be my sons and daughters) while declaring war on black on black crime Then we could have Sheriff Biden surrounded by a group photo of white children saying same while declaring war on the cause of the majority of homicides in the US. The heads of many would explode at the exploitation.Far better to attack and vilify those they know have a very low likelihood of committing a crime with their guns Take the guns out of the hands of the mentally ill,throw the little gang thugs in prison,preferably for a very long time,throw the key away on those providing the little thugs. Let's exploit the problem as so many want to with law abiding citizens. Target every known gang member,post picture and map to their house in the media. Place every gang member in a data base to deny them purchasing legally. Give the names of parents that are producing this disease on society. Do the same with the mentally ill.Having had or receiving medical treatment,in the data base it goes.Never,never allow them the right to purchase legally,along with any of their family members. You want the same done with law abising people,let's first go after those that are causing the high homicide rate Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted January 20, 2013 Moderators Posted January 20, 2013 Then we could have Sheriff Biden surrounded by a group photo of white children saying same while declaring war on the cause of the majority of homicides in the US. It was a white man who killed 20 babies. White on white crime kills thousand. White criminals particularly like killing a lot of people at once. Please! Quote: Take the guns out of the hands of the mentally ill Who puts guns in the hands of the mentally ill? Are you saying that if you are diagnosed with a mental illness you should not be allowed to own a gun? Quote: throw the little gang thugs in prison,preferably for a very long time,throw the key away on those providing the little thugs. Lock someone up forever if them are a member of a gang? So if a kid is standing on street corner with some members of MS13 lock him up. Really? Quote: Target every known gang member,post picture and map to their house in the media. Place every gang member in a data base to deny them purchasing legally. There are already laws that make it illegal to be a gang member, to recruit etc. Gang members don't buy guns legally. How is that going to help? Quote: Give the names of parents that are producing this disease on society. Give the names of gang member parents to who? Quote: Do the same with the mentally ill.Having had or receiving medical treatment,in the data base it goes.Never,never allow them the right to purchase legally,along with any of their family members. So if you have had depression/OCD/PTSD for example, you go on a database and then never be allowed to purchase a firearm again? So your husband is a vet and he comes back from Iraq and then develops PTSD or OCD and then his wife can never purchase a firearm. His 20 year old son can never purchase a weapon. His Father never purchase a weapon. You are kidding right? You want the same done with law abising people,let's first go after those that are causing the high homicide rate Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 Quote: It was a white man who killed 20 babies. White on white crime kills thousand. White criminals particularly like killing a lot of people at once. Please! You have said this before.Where has it been said otherwise. I think I specified white men..... pictures of white children saying same while declaring war on the cause of the majority of homicides in the US. The majority of homicides are caused by the mentally ill or gang members. Whether that is white gang members that do more than their share or black gang members that kill one another in high numbers Quote: Who puts guns in the hands of the mentally ill? Are you saying that if you are diagnosed with a mental illness you should not be allowed to own a gun? Better safe than sorry.It is for the children isn't it? You want law abiding people restricted' date='so what is the problem with restricting a group of people that has shown to be part of the problem in a horrible way? Quote: Lock someone up forever if them are a member of a gang? So if a kid is standing on street corner with some members of MS13 lock him up. Really? Standing on a street corner next to someone does not mean being a member of a gang Quote: There are already laws that make it illegal to be a gang member, to recruit etc. Gang members don't buy guns legally. How is that going to help? That is a law that works well doesn't it.We need new,more and stricter laws on top of those. Just as restricting law abiding citizens will not stop a gang member from obtaining guns,you won't stop the gang member,where a majority of the problems with homicides originate Quote: Give the names of gang member parents to who? Preferably right along side that of the legal hand gun owners that recently occurred.Or better yet,along with that a notifying e-mail as I get whenever a sexual predator is released to our area.Complete with picture Quote: So if you have had depression/OCD/PTSD for example, you go on a database and then never be allowed to purchase a firearm again? Remember it is for the children so the rights of others don't matter.Had the mother of Adam Lanza been prohibited from purchasing firearms these 20 children would not have died.Or at least that is what is being implied Quote: So your husband is a vet and he comes back from Iraq and then develops PTSD or OCD and then his wife can never purchase a firearm. His 20 year old son can never purchase a weapon. His Father never purchase a weapon. Not if the mentally disturbed could possibly gain access. Quote: You are kidding right?[/quote']No I am not.You have already indicated that laws will not stop criminals from obtaining firearms,so let's go to the source of the most obvious problem area's. Take more precautions with the mentally ill,even if it restricts their rights as so many want to do with the law abiding. Put as much public pressure on gangs as they do law abiding citizens,giving much longer,not so pleasant sentencing.Let it be known who they are and where they live thru the media as was done to law abiding gun owners Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted January 20, 2013 Moderators Posted January 20, 2013 Mental illness affects 1 in 5 Americans. That's roughly 60 Million Americans. Lets say the have 4 members in their family. Mum, Dad, wife or husband and one child. That's 240 million family members who cannot have guns. 240 + 60 = 300m. Oops no one can have guns. That's definitely a plan. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 Mental illness affects 1 in 5 Americans. That's roughly 60 Million Americans. Lets say the have 4 members in their family. Mum, Dad, wife or husband and one child. That's 240 million family members who cannot have guns. 240 + 60 = 300m. Oops no one can have guns. That's definitely a plan. Certainly could be.But let's start with publicly identifying them,vilifying them and calling them some of the "politically correct" names anti gun fanatics use. Put it right out there as they have shown themselves to be part of the problem. Mustn't do that of course,that isn't fair. Then move onto identifying all known gang members in the same way,directing anger at them for causing so much of the problem Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted January 21, 2013 Moderators Posted January 21, 2013 Certainly could be.But let's start with publicly identifying them,vilifying them and calling them some of the "politically correct" names anti gun fanatics use. Put it right out there as they have shown themselves to be part of the problem. Mistreating the mentally ill is not really a solution. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
OzarkWoman Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Originally Posted By: bonnie Certainly could be.But let's start with publicly identifying them,vilifying them and calling them some of the "politically correct" names anti gun fanatics use. Put it right out there as they have shown themselves to be part of the problem. Mistreating the mentally ill is not really a solution. Neither is mistreating gun owners but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Quote
bonnie Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 Neither is mistreating gun owners but you don't seem to have a problem with that. We have three easily identified problem groups that are responsible for the majority of homicides. We have a fourth group that is blamed and is not identified as the problem. Only in the mind of a liberal is it treating fairly by blaming the fourth group and calling the concentration and restrictions on the three identifiable problem groups mistreatment. While mass murder accounts for a very low number regarding the stats,the victims are not insignificant,especially when they are children.Whose rights and LIVES should we protect? The gangs don't deserve the consideration of fairness and they only utilize that. Again,where is Obama with his phoney words of comfort to the parents of all those black children/young adults killed by other black children and young adults. I think a picture and Obama saying these could be my son or daughter surrounded by the siblings of these dead would send a powerful message.Placing the blame squarely where it belongs.It would likely be helpful to others to identify the parents that produced these little thugs.It seemed to be okay to blast publically names and addresses of those that were law abiding.Then let's have that grinning dufus Biden doing same with all the white children/young adults that have been killed by rival gang members. I get e-mail alerts all the time for predators released from prison into our area. A predator is no more dangerous than gang members. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted January 21, 2013 Moderators Posted January 21, 2013 Neither is mistreating gun owners but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Mistreating? Weird. If mistreatment is not allowing them not to have a 30 round mag then let's mistreat them. If it mean that they don't have access to hand grenades and C4 then so be it. Some children feel they are being mistreated when you say no to them. Some parents feel that they are being mean to their kids if they can't have the latest toy. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Moderators lazarus Posted January 21, 2013 Moderators Posted January 21, 2013 We have a fourth group that is blamed and is not identified as the problem. Every person who has killed with a gun has a gun. Your point fails simply because of logic. Every gun owner has a connection with mass killers and gang member in that they have guns. Quote: The gangs don't deserve the consideration of fairness and they only utilize that. The US Constitution guarantees due process to everyone you seem to reject that for gang members. Quote: Again,where is Obama with his phoney words of comfort to the parents of all those black children/young adults killed by other black children and young adults. It's quite pathetic of you to accuse Obama of being phoney. You don't know his heart. I hope God in his mercy will not judge you in the same way. Quote: Then let's have that grinning dufus Biden A lot of name calling for someone who professes such high standards. Out of the abundance of your heart you mouth is speaking. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Moderators lazarus Posted January 21, 2013 Moderators Posted January 21, 2013 Seems like neither of you have workable solutions. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 Every person who has killed with a gun has a gun. Your point fails simply because of logic. Every gun owner has a connection with mass killers and gang member in that they have guns. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 As long as I receive alerts with pictures and location of sexual offenders moving into my area why not with the gang members you seem to want to protect. The sexual offenders have at least legally paid their debt to society. Same would be true with a released gang member. If I lived in an area that was known to be the location of gangs why can't their picture and location be made public,along with what they went to prison for? Why can't we know who the parents are that raised this type of individuals?It was fair game for the family of George Zimmerman. I don't mind at all that same principal being applied to white gang members and the white supremacists,why would you object to the black gang members being treated as a sexual offender or Zimmerman? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted January 21, 2013 Moderators Posted January 21, 2013 I really have no problem giving names and pictures of gang members convicted of violent crimes with guns but how will that stop them getting guns and using them? Let's have everyone who has been convicted of a violent crime with a gun deal with in the same way. Quote: Why can't we know who the parents are that raised this type of individuals? Are you saying that every family parent of every criminal should should be made known then? Drunk drivers, tax evaders, bank robbers, meth addicts, etc. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
OzarkWoman Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 It's quite pathetic of you to accuse Obama of being phoney. You don't know his heart. I hope God in his mercy will not judge you in the same way. What is in one's heart comes out of their mouths. Obama has shown us what is in his heart. Thank you!!! Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted January 21, 2013 Moderators Posted January 21, 2013 Quote: What is in one's heart comes out of their mouths. Obama has shown us what is in his heart. Thank you!!! Yes we have seen you in action too! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 I really have no problem giving names and pictures of gang members convicted of violent crimes with guns but how will that stop them getting guns and using them? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
OzarkWoman Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Quote: What is in one's heart comes out of their mouths. Obama has shown us what is in his heart. Thank you!!! Yes we have seen you in action too! You think you are so special. You seem to not realize that you have shown your heart much more than you thought you have. BTW, you like to call people out for calling names and yet, you do it all of the time. Quote
bonnie Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 You think you are so special. You seem to not realize that you have shown your heart much more than you thought you have. BTW, you like to call people out for calling names and yet, you do it all of the time. There seems to be an objection to calling something or someone by the rightful name. I was a little restrained in calling Biden a "dufus".This man is incapable of telling the truth even about something as tragic as the death of his wife and daughter. Publically tarnishing the reputation of the truck driver that struck his wife.Allowing others to think the man was drunk and irresponsible. When in fact it appears the fault of his wife. But you can count the votes in the tears these two like to invoke. Biden can't even tell an accurate story about being near site of 2006 school shootings in Pa.Shades of Hilary in Iraq,Mr. Biden said in a debate that he had been “shot at” during a trip to Iraq. There is only one word to describe Obama and his parade of victims "PHONEY" To some that may be petty name calling,to others it is exactly what it is Any casual research tells a far different story than the one Obama parades for votes.He could not even tell the truth concerning his mother's supposed "lack of insurance" He also seems to be really confused about his own past.His story does not match many facts. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
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