Immoral Society?

[fccool]

Just an off-shoot about the thread on morality.

It really hard for me to understand when someone is talking about our great immoral society, and how it's collapsing and sliding into oblivion because "anything goes".

I tend to think that it's a very selective worldview by the evangelicals that only eager to see the fulfillment of prophecies about world and people getting worse. It's very easy to point at another episode of sensationalist nightly news and talk about how terrible and immoral the world is. But is it really so?

Have any of you actually compared our current moral status, to ... let's say 18th century France, or Ancient Rome, or Ancient Egypt before. How about ancient Israel? Have you guys read some of the stories Bible records?

Does anyone really think that today we are more morally degraded that these people?

Yes, we've had wars that killed millions, but what do you think would happen if Ancient Rome had modern mass-killing weaponry? What about ancient China, or Egypt, or any other ancient empire?

So, does an observation of degraded morality has any ground to stand on?

[Gail]

fccool-

I had one of these conversations the other day with my doctor, who I don't think is Christian but I would guess more like a New Ager thinker.

People "out there" are wondering about the state of today's society, about the violence, etc. I can't help but wonder if it's simply going to get even more brutal.

We will see, I guess!

[Ted Oplinger]

Morality seems to always follow the values a society/culture espouses. Where brutal domination is prized, it is also seen as a virtue, and as such, considered moral.

Blessings,

[fccool]

Quote:

People "out there" are wondering about the state of today's society, about the violence, etc. I can't help but wonder if it's simply going to get even more brutal.

But that's not the problem that I'm referring to. There's no question that there is brutality, but there's also quite a bit of the good and better things.

The question is whether humanity has been degrading in past 2000 years, or has the moral fabric either improved, or have not changed much?

[OzarkWoman]

I can't help but wonder if it's simply going to get even more brutal.

I believe it is and will. We have yet to see anything.

[phkrause]

But that's not the problem that I'm referring to. There's no question that there is brutality, but there's also quite a bit of the good and better things.

The question is whether humanity has been degrading in past 2000 years, or has the moral fabric either improved, or have not changed much?

I'm inclined to agree. I don't think its any worse than 2000 years ago, but its much more. When I say that I'm meaning that 2000yrs ago we had much less people as we do today. In that sense I'd say the moral fiber is a bigger problem today than yesterday. Jesus also tells us that it will be the same in the last days as it was in the days of Noah. So is he saying that things will be worse or just saying there will be less and less morality? I think each one of us will look at that and decide for themselves!

[Bravus]

I think King Solomon had it right, 3000 years ago, when he said there is 'nothing new under the sun'.

The locations shift around, but the balance of human goodness and wickedness is pretty constant.

Anyone who claims otherwise has his/her thumb on the scales.

[M. T. Cross]

I agree with FCOOL. For all the horror and terrible actions there are in these times, there is more awareness and action to put a stop to these things. More people doing things to help others, more people reaching out.

The fact is this, a percentage of people are going to do rotten things. The more people there are, the more rotten people there will be. But it does not change the percentage.

[debbym]

it may be that the bad are getting badder, not necessarily more people are being bad...

i dunno, just a thought.

i don't think we can have a very clear picture of the world, because all the media reports are selective with an agenda in mind, to make money.

i think most every human thought ever thought is self centered, except by the grace of God, their i am.

when you look at what you think is the world, you are not really looking at the world, but through the lens of a few reporters.

i like learning about the world through the people that live in different places, just making known their daily lives. this may include making known war, daily violence, daily struggling to get food, daily shopping a the wonderful local market, getting to work every day, and making it home... etc.

when i ask is the world getting more immoral all i can really look at is myself and ask am i getting more immoral.

[Ted Oplinger]

I agree with FCOOL. For all the horror and terrible actions there are in these times, there is more awareness and action to put a stop to these things. More people doing things to help others, more people reaching out.

The fact is this, a percentage of people are going to do rotten things. The more people there are, the more rotten people there will be. But it does not change the percentage.

What I do find changing, though, is how accountable and personally responsible does society hold that percentage of bad apples for their evil. Is this not what immorality's fruit is seen - by the lack of accountability and personal responsibility of the immoral person?

In Noah's day, it does not appear that evil was held all that accountable. The Roman Empire fell, largely because their sense of personal responsibility and accountability went by the way.

If I interpret Christ's warning correctly...this will be a world-wide issue when He comes.

Blessings,

[JoeMo]

If there is a perception that evil in the world is increasing, there are some reasons:

1. The population is growing exponentially; so even if the percentage of "evil people" is going down, the number of evil people is increasing.

2. We live in a world of instant information. 50 years ago, it took hours to get news on the Viet Nam war (mostly audio); and it was that "fast" because the world had news correspondents on the spot. If anything else evil happened, it could take days to learn it. Today we can watch riots, wars, and disasters live as they are occurring from anywhere in the world. I'd go so far to say that we are on information overload.

3. "If it Bleeds, it Leads" is the mantra of media. Bad news sells, good news doesn't. So we only hear the bad stuff.

I'm not saying that there isn't potential for the planet going to hell in a hand basket; but IMO, global morality in society is nowhere near an historic low.

Does anyone remember the 1960's and early '70's? Simultaneous race riots in several major cities killing dozens of people daily. National Guardsmen shooting and bayonetting students on college campuses. Entire universities closing due to violence and unrest. Cuban Missle Crisis and subsequent embargo; above ground nuclear weapons tests all over the world. Major political assasinations. Presidential impeachment. 500,000 American casualties in Viet Nam. Black Panthers. KKK. SDS. Does anyone besides me think those times were worse than it is today?

[Naomi]

JoeMo, count me in .... I agree!! Moreover, look at history we live on a sinful, evil ball of mud. If we had access to the speed of information being disseminated during the Dark Ages, WW1, WW11, and all the way back to the Cross of Calvary; or back to the fall in the garden people would have thought it was as bad as it could get. Immoral? Yup

Even so come Lord Jesus

[debbym]

when massive population groups get desperate for survival, you will see what you think is evil and immoral.

the law of survival of the fittest takes over.

i remember seeing the Haiti disaster, and how the desperation removed the veneer of civilization.

much of what we appear to be depends on what our circumstances are, and what our situation is. The shows what is inside, that we prefer not to be seen.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

i remember seeing the Haiti disaster, and how the desperation removed the veneer of civilization.

I remember seeing the World Trade Center towers coming down and Hurricane Sandy and how the desperation of those events showed how a truly civilized population could drop their differences and come together for a common cause.

[fccool]

Joe, you beat me to it :)

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I agree with FCOOL. For all the horror and terrible actions there are in these times, there is more awareness and action to put a stop to these things. More people doing things to help others, more people reaching out.

The fact is this, a percentage of people are going to do rotten things. The more people there are, the more rotten people there will be. But it does not change the percentage.

What I do find changing, though, is how accountable and personally responsible does society hold that percentage of bad apples for their evil. Is this not what immorality's fruit is seen - by the lack of accountability and personal responsibility of the immoral person?

In Noah's day, it does not appear that evil was held all that accountable. The Roman Empire fell, largely because their sense of personal responsibility and accountability went by the way.

If I interpret Christ's warning correctly...this will be a world-wide issue when He comes.

Blessings,

Ted I totally agree about the accountability thing. Oddly enough, the pagan circles I run in stress this above most other things. You are responsible for your actions and you have to deal with the consequences.