cricket Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I am curious to know, are there ANY activities at all of which a church should NOT promote or allow to happen within its walls as an approved church function? A pig roast? Sunday worship? Friday-night fights? Ballroom dancing? Wedding reception dancing? Prostitution? Organized, consentual adults-only orgies? A coffee klatch? Tae Kwon Do Academy? Self-defense lessons? Turkey shoot? Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted January 30, 2013 Moderators Posted January 30, 2013 I'd have thought, given some of the recent shouts, that the opposite question is also apposite: are there any activities, any at all, which CAN be done in a church or by members that SOMEONE won't dig up an Ellen White quote or opinion to condemn? Anything? Quote Truth is important
cricket Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 Probably not. So, another question is, where does the Seventh-day Adventist Church draw its threshold of what is allowable and what is not? Quote
M. T. Cross Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I am curious to know, are there ANY activities at all of which a church should NOT promote or allow to happen within its walls as an approved church function? A pig roast? Sunday worship? Friday-night fights? Ballroom dancing? Wedding reception dancing? Prostitution? Organized, consentual adults-only orgies? A coffee klatch? Tae Kwon Do Academy? Self-defense lessons? Turkey shoot? To be honest, ball room dancing is pretty lame.......... Quote
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Why didn't you add 'Baby Showers'? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Whoops - I apologize to Stan for making a comment regarding Religion in the Townhall section. (Some - in the past - have said it "disrespects Stan" to do so. :( Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Probably not. So, another question is, where does the Seventh-day Adventist Church draw its threshold of what is allowable and what is not? The Bible Cricket. Not people's imagination. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
cricket Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 Originally Posted By: cricket I am curious to know, are there ANY activities at all of which a church should NOT promote or allow to happen within its walls as an approved church function? A pig roast? Sunday worship? Friday-night fights? Ballroom dancing? Wedding reception dancing? Prostitution? Organized, consentual adults-only orgies? A coffee klatch? Tae Kwon Do Academy? Self-defense lessons? Turkey shoot? To be honest, ball room dancing is pretty lame.......... So, no answer to the question. Just a personal opinion on ballroom dancing. Thanks for the input. Quote
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Quote: Sunday worship? Yes. It's VERY common for SDA churches to rent out to Sunday churches. My opinion is that our church should have worship in it EVERY day of the week. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
cricket Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 Originally Posted By: cricket Probably not. So, another question is, where does the Seventh-day Adventist Church draw its threshold of what is allowable and what is not? The Bible Cricket. Not people's imagination. No kidding. Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted January 30, 2013 Moderators Posted January 30, 2013 I'd offer an answer, but it would be pretty useless since I'm not a church member. My criterion would be fitting with the Bible, not anything else. The orgy doesn't, for reasons of prohibitions against fornication and adultery. Same for prostitution. I can't see any good solid Biblical grounds for prohibiting any of the rest. (You'll get arguments on the pig thing but IMO the NT (including Jesus himself) says that's no longer an issue) Quote Truth is important
cricket Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 Why didn't you add 'Baby Showers'? You're free to add it if you like. I didn't add it because I really thought that God appreciates babies. I take it it's your opinion that God doesn't appreciate babies. Interesting skew on things, Woody. Which Bible are you reading, anyway? Quote
cricket Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 I'd offer an answer, but it would be pretty useless since I'm not a church member. My criterion would be fitting with the Bible, not anything else. The orgy doesn't, for reasons of prohibitions against fornication and adultery. Same for prostitution. I can't see any good solid Biblical grounds for prohibiting any of the rest. (You'll get arguments on the pig thing but IMO the NT (including Jesus himself) says that's no longer an issue) What about the ogling of women's bodies? Quote
M. T. Cross Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I'd offer an answer, but it would be pretty useless since I'm not a church member. My criterion would be fitting with the Bible, not anything else. The orgy doesn't, for reasons of prohibitions against fornication and adultery. Same for prostitution. I can't see any good solid Biblical grounds for prohibiting any of the rest. (You'll get arguments on the pig thing but IMO the NT (including Jesus himself) says that's no longer an issue) Thats what I was kinda trying to say with my feeble attempt at wit....... Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted January 30, 2013 Moderators Posted January 30, 2013 Quote: What about the ogling of women's bodies? Based on personal experience, that can't be completely stamped out even in the most staid of actual church services... it's somewhat hardwired in men... but what particular event type did you have in mind with that comment? Quote Truth is important
Moderators Bravus Posted January 30, 2013 Moderators Posted January 30, 2013 I'd imagine strip shows would be out on the grounds of Jesus' redefinition of the prohibitions against adultery, for example... but it's probably a moot point, because I think people would be unlikely to come to a strip show held in a church anyway, except perhaps for the novelty. And, of course, that would apply to male strippers as well. I guess I find the question itself perplexing, since it is all this tying ourselves up in knots over where the line is that seems to me to be the problem rather than the solution. Perhaps we'd be better off not to have church buildings at all. Jesus didn't seem to need one. Quote Truth is important
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 30, 2013 Members Posted January 30, 2013 Jesus didn't need football, either. oh, wait...that's another thread.. :) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 30, 2013 Members Posted January 30, 2013 The Bible Cricket. I think The Bible Cricket would be very interesting! And I'd probably like it! Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
cricket Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 I guess I find the question itself perplexing, since it is all this tying ourselves up in knots over where the line is that seems to me to be the problem rather than the solution. Bravus, Club Adventist is a place for tying up in knots discussions such as these. A forum where ideas can be discussed, hashed out, imagined and reimagined. At least, that's how I see it. I ask the question because a church is not a person. A church is an entity made of up persons and is an object that we can hold to standards agreed upon by a group of persons. Whether it is prostitution, or baby showers; football or knitting clubs; pork rinds or celery sticks; there should be a fairly clear idea of what to expect from a given organization. The church is a place for sinners, but it isn't a safe haven for sin. It is a house of prayer, not a den for thieves. In my opinion, it is a place to go for healing and not a place to be hurt. Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted January 30, 2013 Moderators Posted January 30, 2013 It's a fair point. I'll pull my head in. Hopefully others will be along shortly to participate. Quote Truth is important
joeb Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 So, no answer to the question. Just a personal opinion on ballroom dancing. Thanks for the input. The reason there are few, if any, church regulations saying this is right, and this is wrong, on Sabbath activities is one of the main reasons the SDA church has historically been known to have members that are very knowledgeable about their Bibles. That reason is because we as SDAs believe that the church cannont tell us what is right or wrong. That right belongs to God and God alone, and thus is a matter between the individual and their conscience. Yes, the church can say this is what the church stands for doctrinally, but not in matters of conscience. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
JoeMo Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I think what a church sanctions (to a certain extent) is dependent on the church culture (I'm not just talking SDA's here). There are churches here in the Denver area that sponsor yoga classes and "Christian" martial arts. There is even one that has "Friday Night at the Fights" boxing matches. There are other churches that openly and publicly condemn the churches that hold these events. I'm not going to condemn or condone any of them; I'm just saying that a church's individual culture pretty much defines what is and isn't sactioned as a church event. It goes without saying that events like strip clubs, orgies, drug parties, devil worship and baby sacrifices are universally out; but softer stuff like a movie night, fish fry, "Autumn Harvest" (aka Halloween) party, or fitness class should depend on what the church culture will accept. Some churches open their doors for the homeless to sleep in the church. Others don't even like the homeless there for worship services. I know it sounds trite, but "What would Jesus do?" A lot of the stuff He personally participated in was condemned by His local church. Quote
pierrepaul Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 After the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem, God ceased to have a fixed place of residence on earth. He is present "where two or three are gathered in His name". There is nothing sacred or consecrated about church buildings. No where in the Bible are God's people instructed to build up physical edifices. Church buildings are convenient for worshipers and there is nothing wrong with church buildings; but there is nothing special about the bricks, mortar, wood, concrete and other materials; nor is there anything special about the real estate on which the buildings are erected. IMO, there is no biblical basis to treat the so-called "sanctuary" different from the basement, hallways or other parts of the church building. That said, the Church is the steward and trustee of its property, including the real estate and the buildings. The Church ought to manage this property to the glory of God, which should preclude renting or making the building available for activities which are contrary to God's moral law. However, by tradition, many Adventists have elevated the so-called "sanctuary" (that part of the building where the 11:00am service is usually held) to the status of a shrine. And use of this part of the building for anything other than sermons and worship will likely irritate people for no good reason. Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think".
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 30, 2013 Administrators Posted January 30, 2013 The church is a place for sinners, but it isn't a safe haven for sin... I would like to believe that is true, but sadly most churches have a list of certain types of sinners that aren't so welcome... And some churches seem adept at being a safe haven for some kinds of sin. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Woody Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I think what a church sanctions (to a certain extent) is dependent on the church culture (I'm not just talking SDA's here). There are churches here in the Denver area that sponsor yoga classes and "Christian" martial arts. There is even one that has "Friday Night at the Fights" boxing matches. There are other churches that openly and publicly condemn the churches that hold these events. I'm not going to condemn or condone any of them; I'm just saying that a church's individual culture pretty much defines what is and isn't sactioned as a church event. It goes without saying that events like strip clubs, orgies, drug parties, devil worship and baby sacrifices are universally out; but softer stuff like a movie night, fish fry, "Autumn Harvest" (aka Halloween) party, or fitness class should depend on what the church culture will accept. Some churches open their doors for the homeless to sleep in the church. Others don't even like the homeless there for worship services. I know it sounds trite, but "What would Jesus do?" A lot of the stuff He personally participated in was condemned by His local church. Most Excellent JoeMo. You outdid yourself on this one. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
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