SDA & Abortion

[OzarkWoman]

This is just another reason why I have become so disappointed with the SDA denomination. The fact that they seem to be ok with abortion shows that they are part of the world and not the remnant as they like to tout.

Seventh-day Adventist University names new economics centre after abortionist

[olger]

ADvindicate broke that story with an article by David Read.

Margaret Gray would definitely not approve of this.

[BobRyan]

Just when you thought La Sierra had run out of bad ideas...

[joeb]

OzarkWoman,

We were told more than 100 years ago that this church would appear as if it was ready to fall, but that it would not, and that it would be cleaned up. Those who would not follow God would leave the church and be replaced by those outside the church who wanted to follow God and believed in the Bible.

So, am I shocked/astonished/disappointed when I see these things? Not at all. It's just one more reason I see Ellen White as a real prophet. What she foretold is coming true.

[Gerr]

I wouldn't be surprised if the major funding did not come from Dr. Allred. As a SDA, I personally abhor abortion on demand. And the Adventist Church is not a proponent of abortion on demand either.

[doug yowell]

I wouldn't be surprised if the major funding did not come from Dr. Allred. As a SDA, I personally abhor abortion on demand. And the Adventist Church is not a proponent of abortion on demand either.

Allred has been a heavy supporter of LLU for decades. He also bought Los Alamitos Racetrack (horse racing) with his blood money. I guess those "guidelines" have really cleared up the abortion position of the Adventist church,eh?

[Gerr]

Would you like the Church to moral decisions for individuals?

BTW, to whom was the sin of the murder of Uriah accounted to?

[olger]

I would like to church to have moral convictions for themselves.

[OzarkWoman]

I would like to church to have moral convictions for themselves.

[doug yowell]

Would you like the Church to moral decisions for individuals?

[Dr. Shane]

I think Ellen White comments about Cyrus paying for the Jews journey back to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the walls. If I recall correctly she was saying that when God moves the heart of the unbeliever to support the church, the church shouldn't turn the money away because it is "dirty" money.

Now should we name a building after the nonbeliever? Since that is the custom of the day, I don't have a big problem with that.

[doug yowell]

I think Ellen White comments about Cyrus paying for the Jews journey back to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the walls. If I recall correctly she was saying that when God moves the heart of the unbeliever to support the church, the church shouldn't turn the money away because it is "dirty" money.

Now should we name a building after the nonbeliever? Since that is the custom of the day, I don't have a big problem with that.

A non-believer who is a serial abortionist and the owner of a alcohol serving,gambling facility?? You've gotta be kidding?? EGW would name a new chapel after the a Pope,a beer magnate,or the owner of a slave market? That's just sick. Cyrus was king over the known world,pre-ordained to let Israel go home and Daniel probably worked for him. He is not listed among those who are the despicably evil enemies of the gospel.What you're really suggesting is that,in principle, God was ok with Tobiah being given a room in the temple of the Lord, and the enemies of the returning Jews should have been allowed to help in the rebuilding of the temple. After all, they were unbelievers too. The SDA church had, for decades,very specific prohibitions against accepting donations from alcohol, tobacco, and gambling industries. Your application of Ellen White's alleged meaning is an open repudiation of everything she and the church has stood for.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: Shane

I think Ellen White comments about Cyrus paying for the Jews journey back to Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the walls. If I recall correctly she was saying that when God moves the heart of the unbeliever to support the church, the church shouldn't turn the money away because it is "dirty" money.

Now should we name a building after the nonbeliever? Since that is the custom of the day, I don't have a big problem with that.

A non-believer who is a serial abortionist and the owner of a alcohol serving,gambling facility?? You've gotta be kidding?? EGW would name a new chapel after the a Pope,a beer magnate,or the owner of a slave market? That's just sick. Cyrus was king over the known world,pre-ordained to let Israel go home and Daniel probably worked for him. He is not listed among those who are the despicably evil enemies of the gospel.What you're really suggesting is that,in principle, God was ok with Tobiah being given a room in the temple of the Lord, and the enemies of the returning Jews should have been allowed to help in the rebuilding of the temple. After all, they were unbelievers too. The SDA church had, for decades,very specific prohibitions against accepting donations from alcohol, tobacco, and gambling industries. Your application of Ellen White's alleged meaning is an open repudiation of everything she and the church has stood for.

[ClubV12]

Bob says,

"Just when you thought La Sierra had run out of bad ideas..."

I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but that above statement is profound truth either way.

[Restin]

Abortion: Whether to allow it or not, reflects the never-ending need of men to have control over women, to regard women as property like cattle, as they have from the beginning of time.

[joeb]

Abortion: Whether to allow it or not, reflects the never-ending need of men to have control over women, to regard women as property like cattle, as they have from the beginning of time.

Huh? Looks to me about a debate over murdering the innocent persons that don't have the ability to defend themselves.

[Dr. Shane]

You've gotta be kidding??

Nope. I am not kidding. I am sure the facility will be used to further God's work. I have no problem with that at all.

[OzarkWoman]

Abortion: Whether to allow it or not, reflects the never-ending need of men to have control over women, to regard women as property like cattle, as they have from the beginning of time.

Oh pleeeeease!!!! You can't possibly believe what you posted.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

You've gotta be kidding??

Nope. I am not kidding. I am sure the facility will be used to further God's work. I have no problem with that at all.

So, you think that the ends justifies the means? LOLOLOL I am sorry but that is not a good way to think.

[Ted Oplinger]

Abortion: Whether to allow it or not, reflects the never-ending need of men to have control over women, to regard women as property like cattle, as they have from the beginning of time.

Actually, watching how abortion is used practically over the last 40 years - it is used precisely to reduce women to be more more than sexual chattel, with no accountability for forming a stable family. Extremely few abortions are performed to resolve rape, Fallopian pregnancies, or incest. Makes no difference if the man or the woman promotes it - it is hardly "liberating" for a woman to be reduced to an "empowered" sex object.

It might be a bit strong to say it this way, but that is my honest assessment of it.

Blessings,

[doug yowell]

Nope. I am not kidding. I am sure the facility will be used to further God's work. I have no problem with that at all.

Nor an ability to clearly reason either from Scriptural principles or Ellen White's application of those principles, you're just sure. By the time your surety is proven wrong you probably won't care one way or the other.

[Dr. Shane]

Actually, watching how abortion is used practically over the last 40 years - it is used precisely to reduce women to be more more than sexual chattel, with no accountability for forming a stable family. Extremely few abortions are performed to resolve rape, Fallopian pregnancies, or incest. Makes no difference if the man or the woman promotes it - it is hardly "liberating" for a woman to be reduced to an "empowered" sex object.

It might be a bit strong to say it this way, but that is my honest assessment of it.

Blessings,

I must agree. I really like that Susan B Anthony is on our silver dollars. She was a woman's rights advocate and anti-abortiionist. She knew that if abortion was legal, men would force women to have them.

I am very much against abortion but the issue is multi-fauceted.

1. I believe abortion is sinful when used as birth control, for convenience or to choose the sex of the child.

2. I do not believe using the strong arm of the civil government to stop it is the most effective way.

3. I don't have a problem taking money from unbelievers and using it to further the cause of the gospel - even if those unbelievers are abortion providers.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger

Actually, watching how abortion is used practically over the last 40 years - it is used precisely to reduce women to be more more than sexual chattel, with no accountability for forming a stable family. Extremely few abortions are performed to resolve rape, Fallopian pregnancies, or incest. Makes no difference if the man or the woman promotes it - it is hardly "liberating" for a woman to be reduced to an "empowered" sex object.

It might be a bit strong to say it this way, but that is my honest assessment of it.

Blessings,

I must agree. I really like that Susan B Anthony is on our silver dollars. She was a woman's rights advocate and anti-abortiionist. She knew that if abortion was legal, men would force women to have them.

I am very much against abortion but the issue is multi-fauceted.

1. I believe abortion is sinful when used as birth control, for convenience or to choose the sex of the child.

2. I do not believe using the strong arm of the civil government to stop it is the most effective way.

3. I don't have a problem taking money from unbelievers and using it to further the cause of the gospel - even if those unbelievers are abortion providers.

So, Shane, you probably wouldn't have a problem taking money from the mob then either, at least if I read you right. The way I see it you're saying no money is ever tainted. You don't think you give legitimacy to a behavior when you accept funds from the group/s that practice that specific sin?

[Gustave]

The Seventh-day Adventists were involved with Planned Parenthood at ground zero level...

...Back when it was known as, 'The Race Betterment Foundation'.

...Several high ranking General Conference Officers sat on this board.

The primary reason for this was that it was believed that great apes mated with negro females...

...And produced a sub sepecies of hominid which caused confusion.

...It was believed that all the races that God created would be better off if these mud peoples could be culled.

Today a well known SDA institution has named one of it's new centers after the man who gloated...

...That he had performed over 250,000 abortions.

...And has created new and more exciting ways to "gamble".

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/seventh...after-abortioni

[John317]

Abortion Doctor Accused Of 'Snipping' The Necks Of Hundreds Of Live Babies

The Women's Medical Society in Philadelphia is shown in January 2011.

Gruesome allegations are emerging in Philadelphia abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell's murder trial.

Gosnell, 72, is accused of using unfathomable abortion procedures on inner-city patients who were well into their third trimester at an unsanitary, bloody, and utterly gruesome clinic called the Women's Medical Society.

While he's only charged with killing seven live babies, prosecutors believe Gosnell killed hundreds of infants and destroyed related records, according to a grand jury report.

During the trial, ex-clinic employee Stephen Massof testified he "snipped" babies' spinal cords to kill them after delivering them live.

"It would rain fetuses," Massof said, according to NBC10 Philadelphia. "Fetuses and blood all over the place."

Sherry West, another clinic employee, testified Monday that one newborn at the clinic was 18 to 24 inches long when it was killed, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported.

"It didn't have eyes or a mouth but it was like screeching, making this noise. It was weird. It sounded like a little alien," she reportedly testified.

Gosnell is accused of killing seven newborns and a 41-year-old refugee from Nepal who was getting an illegal late-term abortion. He was charged with murder in January 2011 after a grand jury handed down a graphic and disturbing 281-page report on his case.

Gosnell — who wasn't licensed to practice obstetrics and gynecology — illegally peddled pain killers during the day and murdered babies at night, according to the report.

He allegedly had his staff give women pills to induce labor and showed up around 8 p.m. or 9 p.m. Often, the women had already given birth. Here's how he dealt with the aftermath, according to the grand jury's report.

"When you perform late-term 'abortions' by inducing labor, you get babies. Live, breathing, squirming babies. By 24 weeks, most babies born prematurely will survive if they receive appropriate medical care. But that was not what the Women’s Medical Society was about. Gosnell had a simple solution for the unwanted babies he delivered: he killed them. He didn’t call it that. He called it 'ensuring fetal demise.' The way he ensured fetal demise was by sticking scissors into the back of the baby’s neck and cutting the spinal cord. He called that 'snipping.'"

Gosnell ran his abortion clinic for decades, and he "snipped" hundreds of babies necks over the years, according to the grand jury report. His clinic hadn't been inspected since 1993 though. That's when Philadelphia officials stopped inspecting abortion facilities so women wouldn't face extra barriers when getting abortions, according to the report.

In Feburary 2010 the FBI and other law enforcement finally raided his facility following reports that he'd been writing illegal prescriptions. Here's what they found, according to the grand jury's report:

"There was blood on the floor. A stench of urine filled the air. A flea-infested cat was wandering through the facility, and there were cat feces on the stairs. Semi-conscious women scheduled for abortions were moaning in the waiting room or the recovery room, where they sat on dirty recliners covered with blood-stained blankets."

Most disturbingly, investigators say they found a row of jars with the feet of severed fetuses, which the grand jury said defied explanation.

Gosnell could get the death penalty. His lawyer says no babies were ever born alive, the AP has reported.

Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/abortion-doctor-accused-snipping-necks-223751236.html