Public School Insanity:

[bonnie]

Public School Insanity:

USA Today

To judge from recent news reports, they seem to be getting crazier.

Maybe the public schools are getting worse.

The people who are supposed to be teaching our kids are incapable of critical thought themselves.

When innocent behavior can get a kid hauled off by the police the dubious educational reward isn't worth the risk.

In The K-12 Implosion, and also in these pages, I've noted that goverment-run public schools are facing a problem: There are more and more alternatives. It's not so much that the public schools are getting worse, I've argued, as that the alternatives are getting better and more attractive.

But now I'm starting to wonder. Maybe the public schools are getting worse. At least, to judge from recent news reports, they seem to be getting crazier.

Exhibit One: A seven-year-old boy who was suspended because he chewed his Pop Tart into the shape of a gun. Now, really, why would you suspend a kid for that? A gun-shaped Pop Tart isn't a threat to anyone. Nor does chewing a Pop Tart into the shape of a gun suggest violent tendencies.

Meanwhile, a 5-year-old girl was charged with "terroristic threats" for talking about her pink toy gun that shoots . . . bubbles. The school suspended her for 10 days and required a psychological evaluation.

And in Maryland, boys were suspended for playing cops and robbers and using their fingers as imaginary guns. Who is frightened by this sort of thing? People who can't distinguish between fantasy and reality.

In Alexandria, Va., meanwhile, a 10-year-old was arrested and hauled off by the police for bringing a toy gun to school, according to a report in the Washington Examiner:

" 'The safety of our students is always our first concern,' Morton Sherman said. 'We appreciate the quick response and action by our police.' 'The toy resembled a semi-automatic handgun,' said police spokesman Jody Donaldson. It was silver and had a black handle. It also had a orange tip that went into the barrel, showing that no ammunition was coming out of it."

Of course, the safety of the students was never in question -- because it was a toy gun -- but the mental abilities of the school and police officials are now in considerable doubt.

And that's the problem with all of these cases. Our justification for putting massive amounts of taxpayer money into public schools is that they're supposed to teach critical thinking. But stories like these -- and they're legion -- suggest that the very people who are supposed to be teaching our kids how to think are largely incapable of critical thought themselves.

A Pop Tart gun, a finger gun, or a toy gun -- even a pink one that shoots, gasp!, soap bubbles! -- isn't any danger to anyone. Nor is playing with toy guns a sign that a kid is mentally ill or dangerous. It's a sign that a kid is a kid.

When schools and teachers react hysterically to such non-threats, they're telling us one of two things: Either that they lack the ability to respond realistically to events or that they recognize that there's not any sort of threat, but deliberately overreact in order to stigmatize even the idea of guns. The first is educational malpractice; the second is educational malpractice mixed with abuse of power. Neither inspires confidence in the educational system in which they appear.

Happily, my kid is past the public-school stage. But if I were the parent of a young child, I'd think twice before enrolling him or her in public schools today. When innocent behavior can get a kid hauled off by the police, and subjected to God-knows-what sort of pyschiatric interventions, the dubious reward isn't worth the risk

In addition to its own editorials, USA TODAY publishes diverse opinions from outside writers,

[Planey]

My response to that article is 'They're kidding! Aren't they?'.

Admittedly I teach Years 7-12 (ages 12 yrs - 18 yrs), but I find that type of attitude and over-the-top action very difficult to understand.

Again, I'm from Australia. Is this an American thing, maybe?

Graeme

[bonnie]

My response to that article is 'They're kidding! Aren't they?'.

Admittedly I teach Years 7-12 (ages 12 yrs - 18 yrs), but I find that type of attitude and over-the-top action very difficult to understand.

Again, I'm from Australia. Is this an American thing, maybe?

Graeme

No,I don't think they are kidding. There is also a counselor to deal with the pop tart trauma

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/hc-op-will-school-takes-down-pop-tart-terrorist-03-20130310,0,1186076.column

[Igakusei]

My first reaction to the article is that large numbers of children are certainly found doing things like this every day, and collecting anecdotes of the occasions where overreactions or miscommunications lead to bizarre behavior like suspending a 5-year old for talking about her bubble gun isn't really a reasonable way to evaluate trends.

[bonnie]

My first reaction to the article is that large numbers of children are certainly found doing things like this every day, and collecting anecdotes of the occasions where overreactions or miscommunications lead to bizarre behavior like suspending a 5-year old for talking about her bubble gun isn't really a reasonable way to evaluate trends.

There are frequent over reactions reported.

[Bravus]

Crapping on public education from a great height is not the solution.

How many kids are in school in America on any given day? 30 million? Not that hard to dig up a few mistakes, especially in an incredibly litigious society.

And we're not getting the whole story in any of these cases - there may easily be other issues in play, like longer term patterns of behaviour on the part of these students, breaking specific rules or failing to comply when told to stop their behaviour (which needn't be dangerous but can be disrupting learning).

How about actually *supporting* the teachers who are doing an incredibly tough job in a situation where many parents have abdicated from their parental responsibilities?

Mistakes are made, but 29,999,900 of those kids go to school, learn and come home safe each day, thanks to dedicated professionals.

They need society's support, not its scorn.

[Igakusei]

There are frequent over reactions reported.

It doesn't matter.

And like Bravus said, these are all completely ripped from context. I'm not even saying that incidents like this aren't increasing or aren't a problem, I'm not taking a position either way. I'm only pointing out that the conclusion you're drawing doesn't follow from the evidence you've presented. The plural of anecdote is not data, it's anecdotes.

I also agree with the other argument Bravus made, that even if there is a problem here crapping on the whole system isn't a way to fix it.

[cricket]

Just a quick question, what conclusion has Bonnie drawn?

[Bravus]

Not bonnie, the author of the piece posted.

Probably better not to assume posting connotes approbation, though the evidence of bonnie's subsequent posts does lean in that direction.

[cricket]

Just making sure--at least one post seemed to be addressed to Bonnie.

[bonnie]

And like Bravus said, these are all completely ripped from context. I'm not even saying that incidents like this aren't increasing or aren't a problem, I'm not taking a position either way. I'm only pointing out that the conclusion you're drawing doesn't follow from the evidence you've presented. The plural of anecdote is not data, it's anecdotes.

[Bravus]

My kids did all their schooling in public schools.

One is now a maths and physics teacher - in a public school.

The other is a few months from becoming a lawyer... and a few weeks from volunteering in Cambodia.

It's why I mentioned some numbers: you can pick up the road apples in any walk of life, if they're what you look for (and the media you read specialise in spotting them for you), but they're a tiny minority of the totality of life.

[bonnie]

My kids did all their schooling in public schools.

One is now a maths and physics teacher - in a public school.

The other is a few months from becoming a lawyer... and a few weeks from volunteering in Cambodia.

It's why I mentioned some numbers: you can pick up the road apples in any walk of life, if they're what you look for (and the media you read specialise in spotting them for you), but they're a tiny minority of the totality of life.

This... you can pick up the road apples in any walk of life, if they're what you look for (and the media you read specialise in spotting them for you), but they're a tiny minority of the totality of life. holds true regardless of your viewpoint.

It is a little like the hysteria over AR guns isn't it? A very small minority that own these are guilty of harming others,yet that is hardly the viewpoint so many of you take. Going so far by some as to point to those that are opposed to more gun laws/bans as being complicit in the murder of innocent people.

Nor have I indicated anywhere that talented individuals cannot come out of the public school system. Our sons were educated in a private school system and have gone on to do very well. They are quite a bit older than yours so are a little further up the ladder. What was important to my husband and I would not be the same concerns you would have.

I did say that mine would never be sent to a public school. You and I have different opinions on what we would want our children taught.

While my children may very well learn academics if they are motivated students,there is a lot I would not want them learning.

That is hardly a small minority opinion at this time. The numbers of home schooled children are going up all the time.

Nor are the home schooled children at a disadvantage. They have different values than advocates of public school have and go one to excel in their chosen professions

[Bravus]

Would love to see some evidence on that last statement. Again, stories can be cherry picked, but on average... would be genuinely interested to know.

[bonnie]

Would love to see some evidence on that last statement. Again, stories can be cherry picked, but on average... would be genuinely interested to know.

wikipedia

Test results

Numerous studies may suggest that homeschooled students on average outperform their peers on standardized tests.[21] Homeschooling Achievement, a compilation of studies published by the Home School Legal Defense Association, supported the academic integrity of homeschooling. This booklet summarized a 1997 study by Ray and the 1999 Rudner study.[22] The Rudner study noted two limitations of its own research: it is not necessarily representative of all homeschoolers and it is not a comparison with other schooling methods.[23] Among the homeschooled students who took the tests, the average homeschooled student outperformed his public school peers by 30 to 37 percentile points across all subjects. The study also indicates that public school performance gaps between minorities and genders were virtually non-existent among the homeschooled students who took the tests.[24]

The underlined is what I find especially interesting.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/news/hslda/200305/200305300.asp

Homeschoolers Shine at National Competitions

HOME-SCHOOLING: Outstanding results on national tests

The U.S. Department of Education (DOE) estimates there are more than 1.5 million children being taught at home. Furthermore, the DOE estimates that home-schooling has been growing at 7 percent a year for the last 10 years.

Two related questions many people ask are, “Why has home-schooling become so popular?” and “What is motivating parents to take on this daunting responsibility?” In the most recent report by the DOE, parents gave three basic reasons for choosing home education: to provide religious or moral instruction, concerns about the school environment, and dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools.

Regarding the third reason, there is new research showing that the average home-schooler who takes standardized achievement tests is doing very well. The study, commissioned by the Home School Legal Defense Association and conducted by Brian Ray, an internationally recognized scholar and president of the nonprofit National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI), is called “Progress Report 2009: Homeschool Academic Achievement and Demographics.”

The study included almost 12,000 home-school students from all 50 states who took three well-known standardized achievements tests — the California Achievement Test, the Iowa Test of Basic Skills and the Stanford Achievement Test — for the 2007-08 academic year. The students were drawn from 15 independent testing services, making it the most comprehensive home-school academic study to date.

The results reinforced previous home-school studies conducted over a period of 25 years.

Five areas of academic pursuit were measured. In reading, the average home-schooler scored at the 89th percentile; language, 84th percentile; math, 84th percentile; science, 86th percentile; and social studies, 84th percentile. In the core studies (reading, language and math), the average home-schooler scored at the 88th percentile.

The average public school student taking these standardized tests scored at the 50th percentile in each subject area.

Beyond academics, there were significant results regarding achievement gaps. It is common knowledge that gender, as well as parents’ income and education levels will greatly affect a public school student’s academic results. Public schools have invested greatly to try to close these achievement gaps. The study, however, shows the achievement gaps found in public school were greatly diminished for the home educated.

For example, home-schooled boys scored at the 87th percentile and girls at the 88th. Household income had little impact on the results of home-school students: Children of parents with an income between $35,000 and $49,000 scored at the 86th percentile, whereas children of parents with an income over $70,000 scored at the 89th percentile.

As one would expect, the education level of parents did affect the results. For example, home-school students of parents without college degrees scored, on average, at the 83rd percentile for the core subjects. When one parent had a college degree, those students scored at the 86th percentile, and when both parents had a college degree, those students scored at the 90th percentile. There was virtually no difference, however, between the scores of students whose parents were certified teachers and those who were not.

In summary, the results were slightly better than the most recent large academic study regarding home-schoolers (the 1998 Rudner study), and the average home-school test results continue to be 30-plus percentile points higher than their public school counterparts.

In my opinion, there are two main factors for these outstanding results: the educational environment where learning takes place, and the individualized, one-on-one instruction. Most home-school students are directly taught by their parents, who love their children enough to make the sacrifice to stay at home to make sure their child is taught in a safe and loving learning environment. Second, one-on-one instruction emphasizes the best interests of the child rather than the best interests of the group.

[bonnie]

CNN School of Thought

http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/28/doing-the-math-behind-homeschooling/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/01/homeschooled-students-wel_n_1562425.html

Homeschooled Students Well-Prepared For College, Study Finds

By Kelsey Sheehy

Between deciphering college financial aid awards and settling into a shoe-box sized dorm room with a perfect stranger or two, making the move from high school to college can be a shock to the system for even the most put-together teenager.

The transition, many may assume, would be even more jarring for students coming from a home-schooled environment.

"Transitioning from home school to college can be a daunting experience, especially with the lack of socialization that is associated with home schooling," says Los Angeles-based therapist Karen Hylen, who counsels people she says have not made the transition successfully.

But parents and students from the home-schooling community say the nontraditional method yields teens that are more independent and therefore better prepared for college life.

[Learn how to show up at college primed for success.]

More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly four percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.

Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers­ -- 66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent -- and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.

They're also better socialized than most high school students, says Joe Kelly, an author and parenting expert who home-schooled his twin daughters.

"I know that sounds counterintuitive because they're not around dozens or hundreds of other kids every day, but I would argue that's why they're better socialized," Kelly says. "Many home-schoolers play on athletic teams, but they're also interactive with students of different ages."

Home-schooled students often spend less time in class, Kelly says, giving them more opportunity to get out into the world and engage with adults and teens alike.

"The socialization thing is really a nonissue for most home schoolers," he says. "They're getting a lot of it."

Jesse Orlowski seconds Kelly's sentiment.

Home schooled from the age of three, the 18-year-old San Diego native played baseball for two years in high school, started a flag football league, is a "big fan" of swing dancing, and is an active street performer.

[Get three tips to engage your teen in summer learning.]

"I had a lot of time to pursue outside interests… to really zone in on things," Orlowski says. "If I wanted to make something happen I usually could, with a little wiggle room."

Extracurricular activities were not the only opportunities Orlowski seized. The flexibility of home schooling allowed him to focus on his passions: math and science.

As a junior, Orlowski convinced a physics professor at San Diego State University to let him sit in on an upper-level electrodynamics class. He later helped that professor with research projects.

"I can go out and say, 'OK, what class do I want to take, from what professor, at what college in San Diego?' and then I just go out and try and contact them," he says. "Most people would be skeptical at first and then I'd meet with them and they'd say, 'Alright, let's give this a try.'"

[cricket]

Homeschooling is THE way to go!

[Bravus]

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayrecord&uid=2011-11156-001

[Bravus]

(a contribution, not a rebuttal - just like school school, home school ain't home school, there are a wide variety of models)

I have no brief against home schooling - two families of friends have done it. It was not practically possible for us, but I wouldn't have chosen it *for us* anyway... but that's partly a function of who our children are, and with different children and circumstances I might have considered it.

Still, it's possible to lionise home schooling without demonising school schooling...

[bonnie]

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayrecord&uid=2011-11156-001

This says what? That there are parents that should not homeschool and do a lousy job? Same can be said for many teachers in public and private schools.That wasn't really what you questioned tho was it?

Although homeschooling is growing in prevalence, its educational outcomes remain unclear. The present study compared the academic achievements of homeschooled children with children attending traditional public school. When the homeschooled group was divided into those who were taught from organized lesson plans (structured homeschoolers) and those who were not (unstructured homeschoolers), the data showed that structured homeschooled children achieved higher standardized scores compared with children attending public school. Exploratory analyses also suggest that the unstructured homeschoolers are achieving the lowest standardized scores across the 3 groups. (PsycINFO Database Record © 2012 APA, all rights reserved)

The underlined is what I believe you were challenging

[bonnie]

(a contribution, not a rebuttal - just like school school, home school ain't home school, there are a wide variety of models)

I have no brief against home schooling - two families of friends have done it. It was not practically possible for us, but I wouldn't have chosen it *for us* anyway... but that's partly a function of who our children are, and with different children and circumstances I might have considered it.

Still, it's possible to lionise home schooling without demonising school schooling...

Public schools push agenda's that many parents do not want

their children part of. Those that feel that way are pushed aside for the "public agenda"

I believe that I had some different concerns with the raising of our sons that you have had with your daughters. There were and are teachers that I would not wanting to influence my sons at a vulnerable age.

What is taking place in the public schools the last decade or so is not something I would want for my sons or now for my grandchildren. I would not have any choice but to accept what

you would want for yours.

The drop out rate,the inability to read and comprehend beyond a grade school level,basic math skills lacking,the bullying that they do not seem to be able to control is only part of what I would not want for mine.

[Bravus]

Yes. I post the evidence when it shows I'm wrong (although in fact I hadn't advanced a position, just asked for evidence of the one you presented).

Good home schooling is better than average schooling. Fair enough. All homeschooling combined is probably slighter higher than all public schooling combined, since the 'unstructured' group was said to be smaller.

I'm happy and satisfied with the evidence provided. When done well, homeschooling yields good academic outcomes. Unsurprising in many ways, with a class size of 1-5 or so instead of 35. For those who wish to, and choose to, and can afford to, and whose family structure supports it, more power to them, really.

It's not a solution for everyone: it does well what it does well. But so do schools.

[Bravus]

The full paper provides some good critiques of Ray and Rudner's studies, cited earlier in the thread.

The study is also quite small: only about 40 homeschooled students total. Modest claims with modest evidence... the 'unstructured' group was too small for any credible analysis at all.

This is good, suggestive preliminary evidence, but there is a lot more work to be done before robust claims can be made.

On the issue of culture filtering, there's not much to be said: our own approach was to teach our kids to deal with it, rather than shield them from it, since that will have to happen at some stage anyway. The argument to be made can really only be about maturity to handle it at particular ages.

[cricket]

Homeschooling doesn't necessarily mean shielding...just sayin'.

[bonnie]

On the issue of culture filtering, there's not much to be said: our own approach was to teach our kids to deal with it, rather than shield them from it, since that will have to happen at some stage anyway. The argument to be made can really only be about maturity to handle it at particular ages.

Are you assuming because I would not want a teacher teaching

certain things that our sons were shielded?

Example,a daughter of a friend of mine went from a A to a D

.Teacher was a strong believer in evolution.Did not approach it as a theory but as fact.Because the student questioned her very pointedly,not biblically and then included in a paper she was required to write the question as to fact or proven.

She was "disruptive and uncooperative",imagine that. She was pulled from school and excelled as a home schooler. I accept the fact that public school teachers cannot and will not teach creation as fact,but I don't expect a student to be penalized for questioning the "facts" as presented by the teacher.

Similar situations happened with my son the limited time they spent in public school. This was late 70's and early 80's.

As for maturity please note I said at a "vulnerable age"