Francis of Assisi

[BobRyan]

“The other, St. Francis of Assisi, was endowed with that fervor of mystic devotion, which spread like an epidemic with irresistible contagion among the lower orders throughout Christendom ; it was a superstition, but a superstition which had such an earnestness, warmth, tenderness, as to raise the religious feeling to an intense but gentle passion ; it supplied a never-failing counter excitement to rebellious [i.e. early reformation] reasoning, which gladly fell asleep again on its bosom."

"After the death of its author and example, it raised a new object of adoration, more near, more familiar, and second only, if second, to the Redeemer himself. Jesus was supposed to have lived again in St. Francis with at least as bright a halo of miracle around him, in absolute, almost surpassing perfection.” (Milman, Bk. 9, p.237-238)

Oh yes, "he would have had the Emperor make a special law against killing or doing any injury to "our sisters the birds"" (Schaff vol.5 p.172), but he seems to have had no hesitation in telling his followers to surrender any heretic to the bishop for trial. (Durant vol.4, p.801.)

No gentle pacifist, when it came to heretics.

___________________

[BobRyan]

Jesuits convene 2013 Vatican conference on Astrobiology (other life forms in the universe and intelligent life on other planets) -

Quote:

Why is the Vatican Interested in the Search for Life in the Universe?

On Saturday last, I attended an intriguing seminar sponsored by The Vatican Observatory Foundation. Its topic was astrobiology. Astrobiology is a compound science which relies on astronomy, biology, chemistry to ask about the origin, evolution, distribution of life in the universe. Are there habitable environments, in our solar system and beyond it, where forms of life may have emerged? Might there be biospheres that function differently than those we know on earth? What is the likelihood of extraterrestrial intelligent life?

It seems likely, indeed most probable, that forms of life have appeared outside of earth. Many surmise that there are now (or were previously) forms of life on Mars. Some point out that a moon around Jupiter or Saturn’s moon, Euceladus, contain water and the carbon chemistry which could yield life

...

Bill Stoeger S.J., from the Vatican Observatory raised a series of philosophical and theological issues involved in astrobiology

...

Stoeger pointed us toward a new book by Thomas O’Meara O.P., Vast Universe: Extraterrestrials and Christian Revelation (Liturgical Press, 2012) to further pursue the theological implications raised by the newly formed science of astrobiology.

http://americamagazine.org/content/all-things/why-vatican-interested-search-life-universe

So the Jesuits are out in front for the Vatican on the astrobiology topic and now they have a Jesuit Pope who appeals to the "brother Sun" and "sister Moon" personage - of Francis --

I am sure it is all just amazing coincidence.

Or is this what Ellen White meant when she said that one day it "will be considered blasphemy" to speak against certain forms of spiritismh and the Jesuits simply have one small part to play in that agenda?

Still it is interesting how they keep dragging Francis into this.

Quote:

The event was held to mark the International Year of Astronomy, and the participants hope to collect the lectures into a book. Father Gabriel Funes, the chief astronomer of the Vatican, said in an interview to the Vatican paper, Osservatore Romano last year:

“Just like there is an abundance of creatures on earth, there could also be other beings, even intelligent ones, that were created by God. That doesn’t contradict our faith, because we cannot put boundaries to God’s creative freedom. As saint Francis would say, when we consider the earthly creatures to be our “brothers and sisters”, why couldn’t we also talk about a “extraterrestrial brother”? He would still be part of creation.”

Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/44713/vatican-holds-conference-on-extraterrestrial-life/#ixzz2O8pqeDFn

in Christ,

Bob

[Bravus]

A man of the 13th century was not a man of the 21st century.

Astonishing.

[Kevin H]

Personally, I believe that there is nothing good in the work of St. Francis of Assisi. Once we go beyond the traditional gloss concerning this man, everything misses the mark.

While you have ponted out much which conserns me which is raising my guard about St. Francis, never the less in the church history lecture it was pointed out that his beliefs were very similar to the beliefs of Peter Waldency and the Waldencenians and that therefore schlors today debate whether the Pope willfully accepted St Francis or was fakeing acceptance out of fear that if he did not accept him that he and his followers would join with the Waldencenians.

Somehow for someone to be accused of believing very similar to the Waldensenians makes me wonder if they can be all bad.

And second, he did found an order of priests that attracted people who were very interested in studying the second advent. They more than others latched on to Jeochim of Flore's teaching, which is what eventually evolved into Seventh-day Adventism. Granted we are looking at the Franciscain Priests after the time of St. Francis and maybe despite the eventual good fruit it may have had an evil root. However if he was all bad why would his followers start a trail that ended with us being us?

[Stewart (SDA)]

I found your post very interesting Bob. Thank you.

The "brother Sun" and "sister Moon" ideas were built into Francis's "Canticle of the Sun", which the Franciscans say is "perhaps the best known of St. Francis's writings, and one of the best loved and most used."

The "Canticle" speaks of brother Sun, sister Moon, brother wind, sister water, brother fire, and our mother the earth. The last part refers to "our sister, the death of the body".

Let's be very careful if we are tempted to think this man lived close to God. Is death "our sister", or is death an enemy?

[Stewart (SDA)]

I'm sorry Kevin, without some evidence I could not accept that Francis's beliefs were "very similar" to Peter Waldo's beliefs.

[Kevin H]

Again, I also have not looked into St. Francis' life itself to know much about the man. Mine is more the study of our history and the role the Franciscan Priesthood played in it. And granted it was more they TYPE of people who were attracted to the Franciscan's as opposed to other types of priesthoods. Then the big thing for us was how a number of them really latched on to the teachings of Joachin of Flore. So again Francisco himself is still open to debate and you have raised several red flags for me when it comes to the man himself. The comparison with the beliefs of Peter Waldo was in a church history lecture that was sold by Vision Video.

[Gail]

It was in a church history lecture that was sold by Vision Video

Interesting! I think that Vision Video is affiliated with the Roman Catholic church.

Much of the time their videos are quite good, but I still tend to preview them before I put them on our shelves.

[Tom Wetmore]

I found your post very interesting Bob. Thank you.

The "brother Sun" and "sister Moon" ideas were built into Francis's "Canticle of the Sun", which the Franciscans say is "perhaps the best known of St. Francis's writings, and one of the best loved and most used."

The "Canticle" speaks of brother Sun, sister Moon, brother wind, sister water, brother fire, and our mother the earth. The last part refers to "our sister, the death of the body".

Let's be very careful if we are tempted to think this man lived close to God. Is death "our sister", or is death an enemy?

Are you taking this poetry to be literal? A statement of his belief, doctrine, or theology?

A Canticle is a song. The words of songs are typically poetry. Poetry uses metaphors, figures of speech, etc.

I think maybe you are making more of this than is warranted.

[BobRyan]

I found your post very interesting Bob. Thank you.

The "brother Sun" and "sister Moon" ideas were built into Francis's "Canticle of the Sun", which the Franciscans say is "perhaps the best known of St. Francis's writings, and one of the best loved and most used."

The "Canticle" speaks of brother Sun, sister Moon, brother wind, sister water, brother fire, and our mother the earth. The last part refers to "our sister, the death of the body".

Let's be very careful if we are tempted to think this man lived close to God. Is death "our sister", or is death an enemy?

Thank you for your interest in these details. I find it interesting that the Jesuit spin on the teaching of Francis is so focused on an end time scenario that appears to fit one of the many predictions Ellen White made about the final deception in the end of time.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

A Jesuit priest asks the obvious question

Quote:

So when Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the archbishop of Buenos Aires—but perhaps more significantly for Jesuits, the former novice director, director of studies, and regional superior for the Jesuits in Argentina—took the name “Francis,” I was caught off guard. “Why not Ignatius?” the founder of our order, I thought.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/faith...esuit_name.html

in Christ,

Bob

[Stewart (SDA)]

Interesting... Some serious thought went into the choice of the name, I would think. A bold step on his part.

"Francis" has powerful associations for a lot of people, even for a lot of our own people.

We may see some striking sentimentalism from this man, if he tries to 'live up' to the original... Potentially a very dangerous man.

[olger]

Jesuits dangerous.

No kidding.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Yesterday, Pope Francis was shown on TV, embracing an 8 year old [cerebral palsy] boy in a meet-and-greet. A high profile, sentimental action, that served to reinforce the image of a humble, Pope of the people.

And yet I could hardly believe it when I heard the boy's name.

Francis embraces "Dominic". The symbolism in this was very striking to me.

Historically, when 'Francis of Assisi' came on the scene, another man appeared at the same time -- his name was Dominic.

There "arose almost simultaneously, without concert, in different countries, two men wonderfully adapted to arrest and avert the danger which threatened the whole hierarchical system." (Milman, Bk.9 p.237)

One was Francis, the other, Dominic!

The Dominican Order and the Franciscan Order arose together. Both were instrumental in the work of the inquisition.

[Textus Receptus]

All of which is a moot point since Francis was a mystic aka channeler from Satan

[Stewart (SDA)]

And yet, as far as the public perception goes, he is getting a name for being a very humble, kind, man.

I feel sure that the symbolism of the recent event was not lost on the Pope, nor on those within his church that know their history.

Historically Francis pushed sentiment, Dominic pushed inquisition. Their work blended wonderfully.

[Textus Receptus]

And yet, as far as the public perception goes, he is getting a name for being a very humble, kind, man.

I feel sure that the symbolism of the recent event was not lost on the Pope, nor on those within his church that know their history.

Historically Francis pushed sentiment, Dominic pushed inquisition. Their work blended wonderfully.

Francis was noted for his work trying to bridge Islam with the Roman church. I don't want to speculate, but perhaps the name was selected for this reason. It can be strongly suggested that the Muslim world must make strides in uniting with Christianity prior to the NWO. I also think that Fatima (who was named after Muhamed's daughter) and its associated Marianism will have a great significance in the future. Mary has a great significance to Islam.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Textus Receptus,

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say that Francis tried to bridge Islam with the Roman church.

On page 1 of this thread there is a thought about Francis proposing an "ordeal" to the Sultan, but as far as 'bridging' by other some means... I'm curious.

(The "ordeal" he proposed is described in post #618569.)

[Textus Receptus]

Textus Receptus,

I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say that Francis tried to bridge Islam with the Roman church.

On page 1 of this thread there is a thought about Francis proposing an "ordeal" to the Sultan, but as far as 'bridging' by other some means... I'm curious.

(The "ordeal" he proposed is described in post #618569.)

Here is an interview With Lawrence Cunningham of Notre Dame that discusses the subject.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/CHISTORY/francsmuslm.htm