WO

[whatisthis]

Has anyone noticed this stuff? Have we had women's ordination since about 1871 and nobody noticed?

Ellen White's name is not found in lists of Michigan Conference credentialed ministers prior to 1871. (See, for example, lists published in RH, May 31, 1864, May 28, 1867, and May 26, 1868.) She was first issued ministerial credentials on February 10, 1871, by the Michigan Conference:

"Moved and voted, That Sr. Ellen G. White receive credentials from this Conference."—RH, Feb. 14, 1871, p. 69.

Her credentials were renewed by the Michigan Conference annually thereafter through 1887.[1] The 1886 report was introduced with the words: "Your committee on credentials and licenses would present the following names of ordained ministers for a renewal of their credentials the ensuing year." (Ellen White was not listed in the Michigan Conference report for 1888.)

The White Estate possesses six paper credentials that were issued to Ellen White. The first credential is dated October 1, 1883, from the Michigan Conference. The second is dated December 6, 1885, from the General Conference. On that one credential, the word "ordained" was crossed out. The third is dated December 27, 1887, from the General Conference. The fourth is dated March 7, 1899, from the General Conference. The fifth is dated June 14, 1909, from the General Conference. The sixth is dated June 12, 1913, from the General Conference.

[whatisthis]

Hi dgrimm, maybe that info is an elephant in the living room?

[ClubV12]

Old news, it's been discussed at length in a number of threads here. The official position of the G.C. has not changed in over a hundred years. It is: Ellen White was never officially ordained by any man or group of men by the laying on of hands. She, like several other women of her time, was a licensed minister. Today we call that "credentialed", which is different than "ordained". The G.C. recognizes she was a prophet, ordained of God for her work. She worked for 25 years without even being licensed or recognized in any official capacity. Prophets are like that, they don't require the acknowledgement of man.

The elephant in the room here is that the above information has been repeated numerous times as an example of why the Church should support women minister ordination. If the above information was authoritative in that regard the G.C. wouldn't need a special panel to investigate the issue. The issue would have been solved a hundred years ago.

What we, as a Church, need to do, is WAIT for the G.C. to complete it's study, as they have requested. We dishonor the G.C. and the Church by running ahead of the Lord and taking this matter into our own hands. As several Unions have done, thereby bringing shame upon themselves and the Church.

[whatisthis]

Ah, no running for me, on literal feet or figurative, ahead of the GC. I think while they deliberate, we who are of the congregate can contemplate a bit, though, and maybe even sort of tiptoe around the thing in the living room, maybe even. Whose hands, truely, ordain anyone? Is it the hands of man that ordain, or are they only types of the real ordination, much like the wine and the bread when the hands give the cup and break the bread, but it is God who gives and breaks?

What does ordination mean? Is it a type of husbandry? If so a woman could not be it, for women make wives. Or is it a type of Jesus ministering who said he longed to spread his wings like a mother hen and shelter Jerusalem, (I know Jesus related to mother-love.) I don't see him excluding women from "Go ye into all the world". Did Jesus exclude them from "and baptize"?

[debbym]

my question is this,

if there are sacred roles for men in the church that women cannot perform, are there roles in the church that are exclusively for women, that men cannot perform.

oh yes there is feminine submission to masculine authority, men cannot do that. is this really what church is about?

[Woody]

Has anyone noticed this stuff? Have we had women's ordination since about 1871 and nobody noticed?

Ellen White's name is not found in lists of Michigan Conference credentialed ministers prior to 1871. (See, for example, lists published in RH, May 31, 1864, May 28, 1867, and May 26, 1868.) She was first issued ministerial credentials on February 10, 1871, by the Michigan Conference:

"Moved and voted, That Sr. Ellen G. White receive credentials from this Conference."—RH, Feb. 14, 1871, p. 69.

Her credentials were renewed by the Michigan Conference annually thereafter through 1887.[1] The 1886 report was introduced with the words: "Your committee on credentials and licenses would present the following names of ordained ministers for a renewal of their credentials the ensuing year." (Ellen White was not listed in the Michigan Conference report for 1888.)

The White Estate possesses six paper credentials that were issued to Ellen White. The first credential is dated October 1, 1883, from the Michigan Conference. The second is dated December 6, 1885, from the General Conference. On that one credential, the word "ordained" was crossed out. The third is dated December 27, 1887, from the General Conference. The fourth is dated March 7, 1899, from the General Conference. The fifth is dated June 14, 1909, from the General Conference. The sixth is dated June 12, 1913, from the General Conference.

This is most excellent Whatisthis. Thanks for posting it.

[Johann]

my question is this,

if there are sacred roles for men in the church that women cannot perform, are there roles in the church that are exclusively for women, that men cannot perform.

oh yes there is feminine submission to masculine authority, men cannot do that. is this really what church is about?

The interesting thing is that the General Conference has approved of women being ordained as commissioned ministers, and we have a number of these. They are able to perform all of the duties of an ordained minister except serving as a conference president and organize churches.

So why are we having all of these discussions?

[Johann]

Since some of the women in the "rebellious" unions were ordained already as commissioned ministers, all the conference did was issuing them with a new license. They were not ordained again.

[Woody]

Excellent points Johann

[Gordon1]

my question is this,

if there are sacred roles for men in the church that women cannot perform, are there roles in the church that are exclusively for women, that men cannot perform?

Debby, women "can" fill every "role" which men fill. They do and they will.

This doesn't mean they're fulfilling God's will or example.

A role ordained exclusively for women: Counseling other women.

(about half the world's population - a good starter ministry)

[Gordon1]

Men "can" fill this "role". They do & they will.

This doesn't mean they have God's approval either.

[Johann]

Announcement by

Quote:

Jean Sheldon

For those who are interested, I finally have a date for the recognition of my ordination (I decided on this since I've already had the laying on of hands). It will be on April 27, 2013 at 12:15 p.m. in the PUC SDA Church. Anyone is welcome to attend. This was the only date that was open to two key people involved. I chose the second service for the sake of the PUC students.

Source: FaceBook

You will notice that this is not an ordination service since she has already been ordained by the guidelines voted by the General Conference. It is a recognition of what has already been done with official approval.

[ClubV12]

Official approval by who and why should I recognize their authority to approve? Ordained to what position?

[Woody]

Excellent Johann

[Johann]

Official approval by who and why should I recognize their authority to approve? Ordained to what position?

All you have to do is read the official Church Manual from 2010 and dthere you find it. You have the commissioned ministers, men or women, and if they are also functioning as local church elders they can perform all of the duties of an ordained minister except getting elected as conference presidents and organize churches, something that only a few ordained ministers do anyway.

Do you approve the authority of the General Conference? They are tho ones who have published the Church Manual.

Too many people think they can keep fightings against what has really already been done. That is why we are having all of these problems.

In Norway the Union is encouraging their ordained pastors to "step down" for a while and accept a position as a commissioned minister which does not change their status.

[ClubV12]

From your comment Johann, I gather the lady in question is a local Elder in her Church?

It is a bit unclear if she is an Elder or an ordained Minister. I fully recognize the G.C. authorizes ordination for local women Elders. I honor and support the G.C. in all respects, even if I don't always agree with their positions.

IF she is a Minister, who and by what authority is her ordination being "recognized" as offical? If it's all according to Church law, one would think it has already been "officially" recognized by "somebody". I am still confused as to the details.

[Johann]

As far as I know she is a teacher who teaches students who are preparing for the ministry.

If she has been ordained earlier it is because she has been serving either as an ordained elder and/or commissioned minister.

[ClubV12]

Thanks for that clairification Johann.