Gotta love Isaiah

[Gail]

The last chapter of Isaiah has the title, "Zion's future hope"

Verse 5 sticks out in my head:

"Hear the word of The Lord, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let The Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed."

I sense that there have been many who have been chased out of the church by well-meaning church people who thought they were doing God a favour.

This verse is telling me that God is sensitive to those who have suffered from religious abuse, who were chased out of the body by cruelty. What seems wrong to the victims is surely noticed by God.

What I like about Isaiah is that he addresses issues that are happening WITHIN the body of His people. They have gone astray and have lost the sense of what justice means.

[Gibs]

Isaiah tells us so much, and one that is fantastic, his is the first Gospel,

The whole 12 verses of Isaiah 53:, here they are!

Isa 53:1 ¶ Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Isa 53:4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

Isa 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[debbym]

i memorized Isaiah 53, 55, and 58.

i love Isaiah.

Isaiah 58 i found out was the only chapter e. white did recommend to be memorized.

he yielded so fully to the Holy Spirit, was humble, and identified with the sins of others and prayed intercessory prayer for His people.

was privileged with the prophecies of Jesus.

he loved God and agonized for the sin of God's people.

[Gail]

He wrote of an inclusive body of God's people, ie- the foreigners and eunuchs were to be included along with those that were of Israelitish blood. Gentiles would even be among the priesthood in his view. His true religion cared for widows and those afflicted with poverty.

[Gordon1]

Isaiah 58 i found out was the only chapter e. white did recommend to be memorized.

Are you sure about that DM?

[debbym]

the love chapter of 1 Corinthians was recommended to meditated on every day, and the word on Isaiah 58 was second hand to me, nothing i read. i just accepted it.

thanks for asking.

[Gail]

And you are doing GREAT, Deb!!

[joeb]

The last chapter of Isaiah has the title, "Zion's future hope"

Verse 5 sticks out in my head:

"Hear the word of The Lord, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let The Lord be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed."

I sense that there have been many who have been chased out of the church by well-meaning church people who thought they were doing God a favour.

This verse is telling me that God is sensitive to those who have suffered from religious abuse, who were chased out of the body by cruelty. What seems wrong to the victims is surely noticed by God.

What I like about Isaiah is that he addresses issues that are happening WITHIN the body of His people. They have gone astray and have lost the sense of what justice means.

Gail,

Can I ask you a question on this? I'm not trying to put you down as I agree with your view that many have been chased from the church.

I'm just asking, in light of the church of Isaiah's time which side of the church of his day, the "liberal" side who beleived they didn't need to follow God's rules, or the "conservative" side which said God's rules needed to followed and that His blessings would not be given to those breaking His law, was the side running the other one out of(persecuting) the church?

Is it possible that both sides today have those so contemptuous of those who believe differently that they would run those who disagree with them out of the church?

[Gail]

That's a fair question!

On the one hand, you have Nehemiah the reformer, who is breaking up marriages to outsiders to try to retain Israel's identity then along comes Isaiah, who is about as liberal as they come, as far as acceptance goes.

But what struck me was putting this concept, the principle, into modern terms.

When thinking of people that have been cast out of the church, I think that it might not happen only to those of differing beliefs. What about children or new believers whose spirituality is in its formative stages? I promise you they will NOT behave perfectly for many years (if ever, even) and it might be a while until they understand all the doctrine.

How many of us know young people who just fell out of church for various reasons once they became of age or moved out? And how many left being justified by harsh treatment? or by being ignored?

I agree with you about the contempt on either side of the spectrum. But it seems to me that Isaiah had an attitude of gathering, as compared to Nehemiah's, of cutting off.

As you look at the passage, it is the one who was cast out who will be joyous when the Lord appears, and the ones doing the casting who are ashamed. The ones who had been kicked out "for my name's sake".

I just saw food for thought there. I think it is good to note the various warnings in Isaiah. They are just so... modern!

[Gail]

I think I got the order of the prophets mixed up. Isaiah came before the Exile, Nehemiah afterwards. So they were the right men for the right time.

[joeb]

That's a fair question!

On the one hand, you have Nehemiah the reformer, who is breaking up marriages to outsiders to try to retain Israel's identity then along comes Isaiah, who is about as liberal as they come, as far as acceptance goes.

But what struck me was putting this concept, the principle, into modern terms.

When thinking of people that have been cast out of the church, I think that it might not happen only to those of differing beliefs. What about children or new believers whose spirituality is in its formative stages? I promise you they will NOT behave perfectly for many years (if ever, even) and it might be a while until they understand all the doctrine.

How many of us know young people who just fell out of church for various reasons once they became of age or moved out? And how many left being justified by harsh treatment? or by being ignored?

I agree with you about the contempt on either side of the spectrum. But it seems to me that Isaiah had an attitude of gathering, as compared to Nehemiah's, of cutting off.

As you look at the passage, it is the one who was cast out who will be joyous when the Lord appears, and the ones doing the casting who are ashamed. The ones who had been kicked out "for my name's sake".

I just saw food for thought there. I think it is good to note the various warnings in Isaiah. They are just so... modern!

Isaiah is the "gospel of the OT". But, just like Jesus he fearlessly denounced sin. See Isaiah 58.

I have friends of mine, as well as myself, who left the church because of how they were treated. But, I see these things as happening because of unconfessed, unrepented of, uncondemned sin within the church. Not the sins of those who left, but because of the sins of those who stayed in the church. These were basically the same sins Isaiah condemned and fearlessly pointed. Jesus and Ellen White condemned the same sins.

Any time we look at either our, or someone else's, behavior we are looking to self and away from Christ. That's why pride, condemnation, exclusion, selfishness, cruelty, etc... are so prevalent. We, as a church, turned away from RbyF and when we did that the only thing left to us was legalism, and in that environment the sins I listed flourish in our time just as they did in the time of Christ and Isaiah.

I think we're all guilty of those sins, myself included, because of the "spiritual" environment in which we have found ourselves. It's sort of institutionalized. Thus, those on both sides of the aisle are guilty of the same things. Those who see "condemnation" as a "bigger" sin than say, breaking the Sabbath, are just as guilty of breaking the law of God when they think they are superior because they aren't "condemning" anyone, when in fact they are when they indulge in mocking and being sarcastic of those they disagree with.

As to those who are kicked out "for my name's sake" just who is that phrase pointing to? Jesus, Paul, and other Bible writers, point to that group as those who faithfully follow Jesus, reflect His image, and are persecuted because of it. The natural heart does not accept or like the character of Christ, and thus those who have that character are hated just like Christ was by those who rejected Him and what He stood for.

Anyway, just more to think about. A different perspective, maybe, than yours.

[joeb]

I think I got the order of the prophets mixed up. Isaiah came before the Exile, Nehemiah afterwards. So they were the right men for the right time.

Isn't that how God does things? Right man, or woman, for the right time and right situation. Funny how that works out....

Sure glad I don't have to pick the right person for the right place, time and situation. I'd probably have picked Judas, right along with the rest of the disciples....

[Gail]

Isaiah is the "gospel of the OT". But, just like Jesus he fearlessly denounced sin. See Isaiah 58.

I have friends of mine, as well as myself, who left the church because of how they were treated. But, I see these things as happening because of unconfessed, unrepented of, uncondemned sin within the church. Not the sins of those who left, but because of the sins of those who stayed in the church. These were basically the same sins Isaiah condemned and fearlessly pointed. Jesus and Ellen White condemned the same sins.

Any time we look at either our, or someone else's, behavior we are looking to self and away from Christ. That's why pride, condemnation, exclusion, selfishness, cruelty, etc... are so prevalent. We, as a church, turned away from RbyF and when we did that the only thing left to us was legalism, and in that environment the sins I listed flourish in our time just as they did in the time of Christ and Isaiah.

I think we're all guilty of those sins, myself included, because of the "spiritual" environment in which we have found ourselves. It's sort of institutionalized. Thus, those on both sides of the aisle are guilty of the same things. Those who see "condemnation" as a "bigger" sin than say, breaking the Sabbath, are just as guilty of breaking the law of God when they think they are superior because they aren't "condemning" anyone, when in fact they are when they indulge in mocking and being sarcastic of those they disagree with.

As to those who are kicked out "for my name's sake" just who is that phrase pointing to? Jesus, Paul, and other Bible writers, point to that group as those who faithfully follow Jesus, reflect His image, and are persecuted because of it. The natural heart does not accept or like the character of Christ, and thus those who have that character are hated just like Christ was by those who rejected Him and what He stood for.

Anyway, just more to think about. A different perspective, maybe, than yours.

A bit different, but a nice add

Those who were doing the casting out were those who the verse says they were doing it "for my name's sake" but the context makes it clear that it wasn't truly God's work. So those being persecuted MAY BE those who reflect His image. They might also be those who, like children, don't quite have the maturity in their faith to follow as well as those doing the casting out.

I do agree with your statement about looking to one's own or other's performance.

[Gail]

Sure glad I don't have to pick the right person for the right place, time and situation. I'd probably have picked Judas, right along with the rest of the disciples....

Me, too! That's a good time for a multitude of counselors.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: joeb

Sure glad I don't have to pick the right person for the right place, time and situation. I'd probably have picked Judas, right along with the rest of the disciples....

Me, too! That's a good time for a multitude of counselors.

The way I see it, it's a time for one, and only one, Counselor. He's the only one that knows, and He's just as willing today as He's ever been to communicate to us His will.

Remember, out of 11 disciples 11 of them would have chosen Judas as the most likely to successfully run the church....

[Gail]

Good point!

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: debbym

Isaiah 58 i found out was the only chapter e. white did recommend to be memorized.

Are you sure about that DM?

EGW spoke of memorizing the whole chapter of Isaiah 58 a number of times in slightly different ways. Here is just one of them -

Quote:

The mind must be restrained, and not allowed to wander. It should be trained to dwell upon the Scriptures; even whole chapters may be committed to memory, to be repeated when Satan comes in with his temptations. The fifty-eighth of Isaiah is a profitable chapter for this purpose.{GW 92}

Elsewhere she equates Isaiah 58 with the 3 angels message, often referring to the message of Isaiah 58 as the special message for the end of time that should be preached again and again.

I have posted a number of times my own epiphany of sorts when I gave serious study to that chapter. Jesus described the end of time in the terms of that message when he describe the final judgment to boil down to what we do for the least of these. And I am beginning to understand how this ties into the blessing of the Sabbath for the end of time. It is all right there in the 58th chapter of Isaiah.

[Gail]

AMEN!

Yes, I love Isaiah 58. I should commit that to memory. I think that will be my next memory project.

But Isaiah brings out other helpful counsel. How about 29:20, where he talks about the scornful one and all who "watch for iniquity", who "make a man an offender by a word and lay a snare for those who reprove"?

[CoAspen]

Quote:

...where he talks about the scornful one and all who "watch for iniquity", who "make a man an offender by a word and lay a snare for those who reprove"?

What! That doesn't happen anymore!!

[Gail]

How many people do you know even know that's in the Bible?

And actually, although I'm generally against "checklists," I think I'd like that one to be on!