Visible or Invisible?

[ClubV12]

The Vineyard:

God has a vineyard and early in the morning He called for workers, the Jewish Nation. But as the day progressed He saw the work would not be done on time. So He called for more workers, the Apostalic Church. But the work was still far behind. So He called the Protestants. But the day was getting long and the work was still not done. So about the 9th hour He called the Seventh-day Adventists. THIS is the last call for about the 11th hour the final test will come to mankind and at the 12th hour the work will be finished. There will not be another call for workers, this IS the last group to labor.

In the vineyard, God has always had two groups of workers. Those who worked in spirit and truth and those who lean on their shovel. The wheat and the tares, the visible and the invisible Church. No man is able to discern one from the other. No man has been commanded to separate the tares from the wheat. This is the special work of angels. The invisible Church will be purified and united and it will come out of the visible Church. Until the angels finish their work, we must continue our work. Right along side the tares. Helping them, encouraging them, supporting them (even when they steal your shovel).

Stay the course, do not be deceived by those who claim to be of the invisible Church. The very claim reveals their true nature! They are trying to do a work not given to them. God does indeed have a Church, an unseen Church and no man knows who that will be until it is revealed. At about the 11th hour, the Sunday law, the final test for ALL of mankind. Until then, we occupy, we work, we wait, hand in hand with the tares or the wheat, we know not which. Here is the patience of the Saints.

[ClubV12]

Of course some will question or even with contempt, deny the Seventh-day Adventist Church was the last called to work in the vineyard. Fair enough...

The last message to mankind is the three angels message, who else has been called to deliver that to the world? The hour of His judgment come. Babylon has fallen, come out of her (Sunday keeping Churches and other forms of idolatry), don't accept the mark.

[Naomi]

[joeb]

ClubV12,

What is the work God has called His people to do at this last stage of earth's history?

[ClubV12]

Three angels message!

The first beginning a few years before Daniels 2,300 year prophecy was set to terminate in October 1844. By 1843 the world was in the midst of a spiritual revival the likes of which had not been seen in centuries. In Jesus' day the wise men KNEW the King of the Jews was about to be born in their time by studying the scrolls. They weren't sure what it meant, but they KNEW! In the 1830's-40's many biblical scholars also knew that Daniels prophecy was about to end. They didn't know what it meant, but they knew it was about to happen based on the math and a knowledge of history. Some, concluded it meant Jesus was going to return. This then became the dominant theme and they preached the message with power! Many people feared it might be true and tooks steps to prepare. Most were moved to do so from fear, not love, not understanding of what it meant to be a Christian in spirit and truth.

The first angel:

"'Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7

They got the ending of Daniels prophecy right, they just didn't understand what it meant. It meant, the earth had just entered the final judgment of all mankind. Following the great disappointment of Jesus NOT returning as they had expected, only a few turned back to the bible to see what had happened. Most turned away from the bible, away from God, bitterly disappointed, angry, they let go of God. They had been convicted of their sin, but they didn't love God. There was no change in the heart. Their fate was sealed just as surely as the door of the Ark had closed. For many, that was a time when their probation closed.

Others, though devastated by the disappointing turn of events, held onto God as they're only hope. They searched the scriptures with renewed zeal and earnest effort to find where they had erred. Only a handful, and they were scoffed at and ridiculed. A remnant of the remnant who had looked for His return.

Slowly in the next year or so, the doctrine of the final judgment began to take shape, they were beginning to understand. Hiram Edson was perhaps the first to put forth the idea of a judgment and the sanctuary doctrine. Ellen White, independently, was also coming to this understanding. It was becoming more clear what that day in October of 1844 really meant.

The second angel followed the first:

"There followed another angel, saying, 'Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" Revelation 14:8

The Saints went to their bibles with this burning question. Who, what IS Babylon? For those early days it was basically a recognition that the protestant reformation had "stalled out". They had come only so far, then stopped. The reformation must continue. New light must be accepted. They formed a small company, Millerites. After William Miller, who had preached the message of Jesus' return up to 1844. Those Millerites counseled together, studied together and pieced together what this all meant. Ellen White was called of God to point the way and verify when necessary their bible study. She herself was not a great bible student. She recounted later the sadness she felt that she was unable to comprehend the deep study of the bible these men had undertaken. She could only confirm their study as the Spirit of the Lord came over her.

The third angel followed:

"The third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment will ascend for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'" Revelation 14:9-12

Those Millerites became the organized Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1863. We believe Babylon represents the fallen protestant Churches that do not keep all the commandments of God. We believe this false day of worship was first established by the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches are still honoring that false religion. They worship on a false day, Sunday. We believe this will be THEE final test for all of mankind. To keep ALL the commandments of God. To come out of those Churches that do not. To separate yourself from those who trample on Gods law or face the wrath of coming judgment. Get in the ARK before the door is closed.

[joeb]

I knew you would answer me like that.

How about our work is to show the world who God is through our daily lives? That will show the world who is right and who is wrong about God like nothing else can possibly begin to. Is that not the 1st angel's message in reality? Isn't developing God's character what worshiping Him is all about?

And why is Babylon fallen? Because she misrepresents God. And how do we correctly represent Him? By having His character.

What is the patience of the saints? Those who keep the commandments of God have the faith of Jesus. What is that again other than living Christ's life out within us? Having God's character reproduced within us.

[ClubV12]

All good points Joeb, and as Ellen White noted, the third angels message "in verity and truth" is righteousness by faith.

I agree. With our lives we preach the most powerful sermon. As someone once said, "Preach a sermon everyday, if necessary, use words".

We also have a direct comission, a special message, to be preached in the highways and by-ways of life. On the TV, the radio, the internet, at work as the opportunity presents itself, the third angels message as the bible declares it. The end of all things is upon us, THIS is the last message to a dieing world. THIS is the specific message given to Gods last Church on earth for the world, Seventh-day Adventists.

Everything else is an "entering wedge" as it were. Helping your neighbor. Working with the poor and needy. The health message. All these are for one purpose, to reach people with our message. Sometimes I see we miss the mark in that regard. We help the needy and then send them on their way. Sometimes that is all we can do, but I always remember, helping the needy to get off the planet alive is the real goal!

[joeb]

Our message to a dying world is the love of God. There is no way to preach it if we do not live it. Nothing changes hearts like the drawing power of love, and if we don't have it nothing we say has much effect. So, without Christ's character being our character, we cannot preach the message we are to give.

What does Ellen White say about this? That God is waiting for His people to have His character, and then the end will come. What's that say about the message we are to deliver? It can't be theology. It has to be lived.

[Ted Oplinger]

Three angels message!

The first beginning a few years before Daniels 2,300 year prophecy was set to terminate in October 1844. By 1843 the world was in the midst of a spiritual revival the likes of which had not been seen in centuries. In Jesus' day the wise men KNEW the King of the Jews was about to be born in their time by studying the scrolls. They weren't sure what it meant, but they KNEW! In the 1830's-40's many biblical scholars also knew that Daniels prophecy was about to end. They didn't know what it meant, but they knew it was about to happen based on the math and a knowledge of history. Some, concluded it meant Jesus was going to return. This then became the dominant theme and they preached the message with power! Many people feared it might be true and tooks steps to prepare. Most were moved to do so from fear, not love, not understanding of what it meant to be a Christian in spirit and truth.

The first angel:

"'Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'" (Revelation 14:6,7

They got the ending of Daniels prophecy right, they just didn't understand what it meant. It meant, the earth had just entered the final judgment of all mankind. Following the great disappointment of Jesus NOT returning as they had expected, only a few turned back to the bible to see what had happened. Most turned away from the bible, away from God, bitterly disappointed, angry, they let go of God. They had been convicted of their sin, but they didn't love God. There was no change in the heart. Their fate was sealed just as surely as the door of the Ark had closed. For many, that was a time when their probation closed.

Others, though devastated by the disappointing turn of events, held onto God as they're only hope. They searched the scriptures with renewed zeal and earnest effort to find where they had erred. Only a handful, and they were scoffed at and ridiculed. A remnant of the remnant who had looked for His return.

Slowly in the next year or so, the doctrine of the final judgment began to take shape, they were beginning to understand. Hiram Edson was perhaps the first to put forth the idea of a judgment and the sanctuary doctrine. Ellen White, independently, was also coming to this understanding. It was becoming more clear what that day in October of 1844 really meant.

The second angel followed the first:

"There followed another angel, saying, 'Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.'" Revelation 14:8

The Saints went to their bibles with this burning question. Who, what IS Babylon? For those early days it was basically a recognition that the protestant reformation had "stalled out". They had come only so far, then stopped. The reformation must continue. New light must be accepted. They formed a small company, Millerites. After William Miller, who had preached the message of Jesus' return up to 1844. Those Millerites counseled together, studied together and pieced together what this all meant. Ellen White was called of God to point the way and verify when necessary their bible study. She herself was not a great bible student. She recounted later the sadness she felt that she was unable to comprehend the deep study of the bible these men had undertaken. She could only confirm their study as the Spirit of the Lord came over her.

The third angel followed:

"The third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, 'If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment will ascend for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.'" Revelation 14:9-12

Those Millerites became the organized Seventh-day Adventist Church in 1863. We believe Babylon represents the fallen protestant Churches that do not keep all the commandments of God. We believe this false day of worship was first established by the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches are still honoring that false religion. They worship on a false day, Sunday. We believe this will be THEE final test for all of mankind. To keep ALL the commandments of God. To come out of those Churches that do not. To separate yourself from those who trample on Gods law or face the wrath of coming judgment. Get in the ARK before the door is closed.

That's a standard SDA answer.

Personally, I think the answer goes a bit deeper than a mere reciting the 3 Angel's message...those could be unpacked quite a bit...but that's just little ol' me thinking there.

Blessings,

[ClubV12]

The standard Seventh-day Adventist three angels message is a good place to start!

"Our message to a dying world is the love of God."

OK, that sounds just like what my neighbors message as well. They are a fine example of a Christian family, good people. They love God and go to Church every Sunday. They are not afraid to speak of their love for God. It's pretty much the same message a number of my Sunday keeping friends share, God is love. They don't get hung up on this doctrine and theology thing.

A dieing man doesn't need a hug, he needs an ambulance!

FEAR God, His judgment is here, now.

Babylon is fallen and stands as a fornication before God.

Worship on Sunday and you will be "tormented with fire and brimstone", and die, forever. No second chances.

The short version.

Ted, unpacked a bit? I agree, one could write a book on the subject! :)

[Ted Oplinger]

The standard Seventh-day Adventist three angels message is a good place to start!

"Our message to a dying world is the love of God."

OK, that sounds just like what my neighbors message as well. They are a fine example of a Christian family, good people. They love God and go to Church every Sunday. They are not afraid to speak of their love for God. It's pretty much the same message a number of my Sunday keeping friends share, God is love. They don't get hung up on this doctrine and theology thing.

A dieing man doesn't need a hug, he needs an ambulance!

FEAR God, His judgment is here, now.

Babylon is fallen and stands as a fornication before God.

Worship on Sunday and you will be "tormented with fire and brimstone", and die, forever. No second chances.

The short version.

Ted, unpacked a bit? I agree, one could write a book on the subject!

I do believe several books have been penned, and we still haven't scratched the surface...

[joeb]

The standard Seventh-day Adventist three angels message is a good place to start!

"Our message to a dying world is the love of God."

OK, that sounds just like what my neighbors message as well. They are a fine example of a Christian family, good people. They love God and go to Church every Sunday. They are not afraid to speak of their love for God. It's pretty much the same message a number of my Sunday keeping friends share, God is love. They don't get hung up on this doctrine and theology thing.

A dieing man doesn't need a hug, he needs an ambulance!

FEAR God, His judgment is here, now.

Babylon is fallen and stands as a fornication before God.

Worship on Sunday and you will be "tormented with fire and brimstone", and die, forever. No second chances.

The short version.

Ted, unpacked a bit? I agree, one could write a book on the subject!

Do you understand, ClubV12, that God's character, His law, and His love are synonymous? All three have the same attributes. There's not a whit of difference between them.

We have such an amazing message to give about all three, and we're stuck on trying to scare people into the kingdom. Love works far better than fear. Christ's life has proven this. Why don't we understand this?

[ClubV12]

I DO see love in the three angels message! When David said, "Oh how I love thy law", what he was really saying was, "Oh how I love thy character". Gods law IS his character and that in turn IS love.

The great controversy will be ended, soon. The facts are, a lot of people are going to die. LOVE says this is the only possible solution. If not, sin will be immortalized, strife will reign forever. When God took them all away with a flood, He was out of options, there was no other way to save mankind. He had Noah build a boat for 120 years. Obviously word got around what Noah was up to and why. Obviously Noah warned them, and I have no doubt he did that with love, sympathy, tenderness. But he told them straight when it was necessary, get in the boat or you will die. The same way Jesus wept over Jerusalem, but He could not save them, they were doomed. And the horrors of the seige of Jerusalem, mothers eating their children. The horrors, but He could not stop it, they had chosen their path and were reaping the results of sin. They were the lawful prey of the evil doer.

When I first heard the three angels message it was delivered with love, as gently as possible, I sensed that, I felt that. I also got it, I understood the message, repent, or die. For me it wasn't fear as much as a recognition of the cost. All the things I would have to give up. I counted that cost. Eternal life vs death. Death down the road vs all the neat stuff I had right now. I ALMOST turned my back on religion at that point. In fact I told the evangelist I was done, wouldn't be back. It could have gone either way there for awhile. Love won the day, they were such nice folks!

Entering "wedges". Cooking school. Dorcas. Pathfinders maybe. Community involvement. Helping the needy. Love! What are we entering FOR? To give them the three angels message so they don't die!

[joeb]

I DO see love in the three angels message! When David said, "Oh how I love thy law", what he was really saying was, "Oh how I love thy character". Gods law IS his character and that in turn IS love.

The great controversy will be ended, soon. The facts are, a lot of people are going to die. LOVE says this is the only possible solution. If not, sin will be immortalized, strife will reign forever. When God took them all away with a flood, He was out of options, there was no other way to save mankind. He had Noah build a boat for 120 years. Obviously word got around what Noah was up to and why. Obviously Noah warned them, and I have no doubt he did that with love, sympathy, tenderness. But he told them straight when it was necessary, get in the boat or you will die. The same way Jesus wept over Jerusalem, but He could not save them, they were doomed. And the horrors of the seige of Jerusalem, mothers eating their children. The horrors, but He could not stop it, they had chosen their path and were reaping the results of sin. They were the lawful prey of the evil doer.

When I first heard the three angels message it was delivered with love, as gently as possible, I sensed that, I felt that. I also got it, I understood the message, repent, or die. For me it wasn't fear as much as a recognition of the cost. All the things I would have to give up. I counted that cost. Eternal life vs death. Death down the road vs all the neat stuff I had right now. I ALMOST turned my back on religion at that point. In fact I told the evangelist I was done, wouldn't be back. It could have gone either way there for awhile. Love won the day, they were such nice folks!

Entering "wedges". Cooking school. Dorcas. Pathfinders maybe. Community involvement. Helping the needy. Love! What are we entering FOR? To give them the three angels message so they don't die!

Absolutely, ClubV12. We have to live God's love for others. We have to display God's character in our lives. That is how the final message will be communicated. Remember the quote about God's messengers going door to door? That's personal, one-on-one evangelism. And if we don't have the Holy Spirit present in us, and have the love of God so inherently a part of us that others will instantly see, just like they did with Christ, our love for them, the message will not spread with the power of the Holy Spirit. And, He's the only one who can prepare our way, give us the words to speak, work out the changes in us that we cannot do for ourselves, etc....

Without Christ, without the Holy Spirit, our witness is nothing.