Bermuda Triangle prisoners.

[Guest]

The demons that desired by a request to Jesus to enter into the pigs instead of being cast into the “deep” or “out of the country", did they die that day, or were they permitted to remain on the earth tormenting people?

[Guest]

Remember now, Jesus honored their request to not send them "into the deep" or "out of the country". The demons that have been sent to "the deep" by a God fearing man/woman are prisoner there until after the close of probation. But... when the 5th Trumpet/Plague arrives, these prisoners are turned loose again to go put some "hurt" on a select group in God's professed church. The restriction prevents killing them, but allows this select group to be tormented for 5 months. But oh how this select group wish that someone would kill them because they "are seeking death but shall not find it". Isn't it a shame that "the people of the book" [as SDA were once called] are not allow to read this from their own bibles?? Yes it is a shame!

[Ron Lambert]

I don't know if the demons are confined in the Bermuda Triangle, Ed, but you are right about the demons being released from the restraint that constitute the "bottomless pit" during the final conflict, so they can openly manifest themselves in the fallen churches. This is what the fifth and sixth trumpets are really about.

It is not that SDAs in general are not "allowed" to read this from their Bible, as if the GC had prohibited it or something. Rather, it is the attachment so many have to long-standing traditional interpretations of certain prophecies, where they expect to see application to past history in prophecies that actually apply exclusively to the time of the end, that prevents them from seeing what the prophecies really are talking about.

As an exercise, may I invite anyone who has the courage to do this, set aside for a moment everything they have ever heard about the two witnesses in Revelation 11 and the French Revolution, and just read Revelation 11:11, 12 for what this passage most obviously says. See for yourself if it is not talking about the Special Resurrection of the saints in fulfillment of Daniel 12:2, and the voice of God speaking from Heaven at the time of the saints' deliverance telling them when Christ will come, and the saints being honored before their enemies as they are taken up into Heaven in glory at the Second Advent. A couple of points might help: Only God could issue an invitation to come up into Heaven, and any proper invitation must include the day and hour of the appointment.

Then if our courageous reader really is willing to look beyond cherished traditional views, read Revelation 9:15 again, putting aside any thought of Turkey, and see if the text is not plainly as can be talking about a Universal Death Decree, such as marks the Close of Human Probation.

Go ahead, try it. I dare you!

[Guest]

Ron well said, & doctrinally sound ever word!!! But Adventistm don't want a layman telling them anything, light [according to their reasoning] only comes to them through proper channels. But God desires us receive the truth upon its own merits-because it IS TRUTH!!

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About this Bermuda Triangle location for these prisoners. Bible facts tells us that it is somewhere that these demons in Jesus' day didn't want to be placed. "the deep" must be somewhere on this earth, but since the cross, Satan & his angels are confined HERE until they are burned up at the end of the 1000 years. I have other reason to believe the location for "the deep" is the Bermuda Triangle that I will share later if pressed to do so. But Adventist the time is ripe to wake up and take this challenge that Ron has suggested AND READ your bible!!! If you wait until that fellow on satalite in a three piece business suit tells you the truth Ron just uttered, you will still be waiting until there is a famine in the land of hearing God's word spoken ever again. Is that what you want Adventist?

[Guest]

Ron I have a minister friend teaching these same truth on Revelation message correctly, now in two large prisons in a western state once a month. Those people can accept these truths without a ounce of hesitation, why? Because they can SEE it comes straight from the Word Of God, but here heaven professed people are looking out the window trusting their salvation to their favorite evangelist on Revelation messages. They see the so called success of seein membership double and then think they are doing everthing right.

[Amelia]

The Bermuda Triangle isnt a place but an area. The deepest place in that general area would be the Puerto Rico Trench, 28,231 ft deep. The Mariana Trench is deeper at 36,200 ft but in the Pacific. And why pick the ocean for some place deep. Why not the center of the earth?

[Guest]

Amelia said. "And why pick the ocean for some place deep. Why not the center of the earth?"

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I am/was a nobody & wasn't consulted when heavenly being selected a spot on this earth to confine demons that have been defeated on planet earth by a God fearing man or women. The SOP tells us that "at the sound of fervent prayer, Satan & his whole host will tremble", which I happen to believe!!!

I will state a few reason why I believe “the deep” to be the AREA of the Bermuda Triangle. But would you search a few of these words from the SOP writings as thourly as you did the Bermuda Triangle documentation??

“To those walking in the light, there will be constant communication between earth and heaven”. A minister friend of mine was called to visit a lady in a nursing home in Oregon years ago. She appeared to be near death, she was all coiled up unable to open her hands or extend her arms. The first thing this minster did was to pray out loud. “Lord, if Satan & his demons are in any way responsible for this sickness, in the name of Jesus I demand they set her free.” The lady responded by un-coiling, then a demon begin talking, saying “we hate you” to the minister, calling him by name. After a while of talking the minister just came out and asked the demon “where is the deep”? The demon said “NO”, then after 20 minutes of prayer with the woman the demon returned willing to tell the location of “the deep”. The minister asked, “why are you now willing”, the demon said “because HE told me to tell you”. Then the demon said that “the deep” was the Bermuda Triangle.

But the reason Adventism will never understand Revelations message correctly is because bible chapters that apply to the future, the seminary teachers will slap their hands with a wooden ruler if they don’t apply them to the past. It's time to get real Adventist, the old guard is dieing off and could NOT provide you any support anyway, as you must answer for yourself before God someday. Do these hirling shepherds that are dieing off get off scott free? I pray that they would, but the bible teaches differently. As a matter of fact their punishment will be ten times greater that the ones they mislead.[EW 282] When will this take place? For some it will happen TWICE, If they have been a "violent opposer of God & His people" [GC 637] they will come to life [when God speaks during the 7th Trumpet]]BEFORE Jesus even leaves heaven. Heaven has a good reason for everything it does.

[Ron Lambert]

Ed, the "HE" that the demon took orders from was probably Lucifer. The devils delight in telling people things that will be readily received yet mislead them.

Another thing that I feel a sense of caution about concerning that story, is that we have been warned through the Spirit of Prophecy not to engage devils in conversation. That pastor was being presumptuous and asking for trouble by asking the demons questions. Their capacity to deceive us is so great, we are asking for trouble to talk to them about anything. They have thousands of years of experience deceiving humans, and possess far greater intellectual powers than we do. When dealing with demons, we should speak only in the name of Jesus the commands He would have us give to free the captives. We have absolutely nothing to discuss with demons beyond that.

[Gregory Matthews]

Ron:

Amen

[Clio]

Totally in agreement with you there Ron! Amen indeed!

Clio

[Amelia]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

But would you search a few of these words from the SOP writings as thourly as you did the Bermuda Triangle documentation??

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

First: I do have some little tad of intellect and knew the names and areas for the trenches already. The only thing I looked up were the depths. That really wasn't Bermuda triangle research.

Second: I would if I could research what you say but to be honest I can't really follow what you say. Faulty little tad of intellect on my part I'm sure.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

thourly

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Check out the bottom of the posting page for the spell check button. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

[Guest]

Quote:

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Ron Lambert said:

Ed, the "HE" that the demon took orders from was probably Lucifer. The devils delight in telling people things that will be readily received yet mislead them.

Another thing that I feel a sense of caution about concerning that story, is that we have been warned through the Spirit of Prophecy not to engage devils in conversation. That pastor was being presumptuous and asking for trouble by asking the demons questions. Their capacity to deceive us is so great, we are asking for trouble to talk to them about anything. They have thousands of years of experience deceiving humans, and possess far greater intellectual powers than we do. When dealing with demons, we should speak only in the name of Jesus the commands He would have us give to free the captives. We have absolutely nothing to discuss with demons beyond that.

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Ron Your reasoning for not engaging in a conversation with a demon is the same rule I have always followed as well. I was only telling you of what this minister did. However the "He" I took that to be Jesus ordering this demon as Satan & his cohorts don't like to repeat that name so they refer to Him without saying the name of Jesus. Isn't there a bible verse that goes like this "At the name of Jesus every knee shall bow"? But if Adventist would only study these bible chapter [Revelation 8&9] we believe to in the future, what I am suggesting about the demons abode, wouldn't be so far fetched.

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I read in a news paper a few years ago about a group of Sunday keeping minister in Texas that had assembled to expel a demon from a person and one of the ministers feet caught on fire. The article stated that he had a known sin in his life.

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One other account of a News print article. A Satan worshiper was walking through a neighborhood and over heard a woman cursing the devil. With him once taking a oath that he signed with his own blood, he either had to kill that person immediately or kill themselves. Praise God he let that person live and didn’t clutter up the court system.

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Ron the above words were posted 10 minutes afer you posted your, but mine posts don't always stick, if you know what I mean!!!

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Gregory if you are in full agreement with Rons post as you say, then please provide the SOP quote that Ron failed to provide saying that Sister White said not to engage in a conversation with a demon. But can I now ask you a question? We both know the bible verse that say we should walk in the Master footsteps, right? Now a LARGE portion of Jesus's time on this earth was casting out devils why don't the ministers you rub shoulders do the same?

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Clio glad you are in full agreement with Rons posts! Wow I am sure happy that SOMEONE understand Revelation 8 & 9 like he does, now we have much to talk about when he is absent.

Is it posible that the reason the three of you are opposed to my words above is because you are not even familar with these chapters??? You know it & I know it!!

======================

Amelia surely you can find something else to rake me over the coals about besides my spelling, try a little harder next time. I never one saw you EXPOSE Greg when all his spelling mistakes appear.

[Guest]

Amelia said. “Second: I would if I could research what you say but to be honest I can't really follow what you say. Faulty little tad of intellect on my part I'm sure.”

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Well I would say these words below are sound advice [who ever coined it years ago] to “light a candle instead of cursing the darkness”. Now if Revelation 8&9 are to heavy to study out as you suggest, consider leaving off the joke telling for a season until you can have an opinion one way or the other. Isn’t there a bible verse that goes like this? “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

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I will take your advice about the spell check tab so as not be an offender for a word.

[Guest]

Revelation 8&9 messages was not put in the bible just as a filler and to make the book bigger. Neither is it place there to confuse anyone, heaven doesn't work on those principles. Now if you had a maple bar or 2 cake donuts with your coffee for breakfast this morning these words will make little impression on you. But keep reading Gods word even with a clouded mind as there is power there to be given to the beholder.

Let us now consider some endtime events AFTER the close of probation during the 4th Trumpet. "...and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." Revelation 8:12. Twelve hours in a day when there is normal daylight, divided by three, is four hours of total darkness, then four hours of total darkness at night, where not a star or moon can be seen. Total darkness all over the world will anger those suffering the effects of the previous plagues one through four, those who have the mark of the beast. When daylight returns, the organized wicked get their heads together to put some "hurt" (Rev. 9:4) on the group who has disturbed their peace in the past. It is the false shepherds in Adventism they come after. God's true people at this point are safe and secure, even "calm and composed". Early Writings 283. The Bible says the same, "...they are at rest, that dwell safely (margin-confidently) all of them..." Ezekiel 38:11. They are under the protection of Psalms 91, "A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee". Psalms 91:11. Yes, the false shepherds are dealt with during the 5th trumpet by an organized group that can get goverment legislation passed through in a hurry in getting laws signed and on the books. The law says that they are not allowed to "kill them", "but they should be tormented five months". Revelation 9:5. "The people turned upon their ministers with bitter hate and reproached them, saying, "You have not warned us. You told us that all the world was to be converted, and cried, peace, peace, to quiet every fear that was raised. You have not told us of this hour; and those who warned us of it you declared to be fanatics and evil men, who would ruin us!' But I saw that the ministers did not escape the wrath of God. Their suffering was tenfold greater than that of their people." Early Writings 282.

[Beryl]

Ed, you have it all wrong and out of context.

[Guest]

Beryl, thanks for allowing yourself to be exposed to some truth in reading along here. Not many Adventist are willing to do that being completely satisified with the memory work lessons of their favorite evangelist. If the evengelist was a "A" student in the seminary, that even makes it worse for you. If I am so wrong as you "FEEL", why not set me straight, surely I am a soul worth saving!!! Call up as many "Lifelines" as you like, even authors & publishers are welcome to assist you and be exposed by Gods word in it's native purity. Even that fast talking evengelist can assist you, the one that bobs & weaves all over the platform as though he is still on a skate board.

[Guest]

The statement above in EW 282 about the minister suffering 10 times more than the people they have led astray, many may question the fact that the above quote is talking about Sunday keeping pastors. No, not when one puts all the pieces together.

"Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, 'thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting' the angel said, 'These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up' I heard them cry with a loud voice, 'We have believed in thy coming, and taught it with energy.'" Early Writings 37.

Much could be said with scriptural backing to support the truth of the false shepherds in Adventism [i could provide this if pressed] being "tormented", during this fifth trumpet. Now let us talk a little about this third group, who are living "confidently", this small "obscure people", (refer to Dorchester Vision, Oct 23, 1850), scattered all over the world in little pockets. They have the Seal of God in their foreheads (See Revelation 9:4), and none can put any "hurt" on them. However, "personal affliction will come; but the furnace is closely watched by an eye that will not suffer the gold to be consumed. The indelible mark of God is upon them. God can plead that His own name is written there, the Lord has shut them in. Their destination is inscribed, 'GOD, NEW JERUSALEM.' They are God's property, His possession". Testimonies to Ministers 446.

But "personal affliction" is just on the horizon for them. It is their own personal "Jacob's trouble", during the sixth trumpet. Some event on a world wide scale will call leaders to assembly and agree to put into action a new law, canceling out the one to "hurt" the false shepherds for five months. "One woe is past." Revelation 9:12. That previous law is now history (the 5th trumpet), they have something more urgent on their mind. "Thus saith the Lord God; It shall come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shall think an evil thought." Ezekiel 38:10. Remember now, Ezekiel 38 is God talking to the wicked after probation has closed, during the seven last plagues. So the wicked are this group which will "think an evil thought." The evil thought is to exterminate in one decisive blow all of God's true people.

[cardw]

Quote:

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"Then I was shown a company who were howling in agony. On their garments was written in large characters, 'thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting' the angel said, 'These are they who have once kept the Sabbath and have given it up' I heard them cry with a loud voice, 'We have believed in thy coming, and taught it with energy.'" Early Writings 37

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This is so ridiculous. What kind of god gets so bent out of shape about a day of worship that someone has to howl in agony because they change their mind over a day?

This was written when Ellen and James were still condemning everyone who disagreed with every minor point of doctrine. This type of thing is so offensive that we normally hide it from the world because if this was generally known we would certainly be stigmatized as a cult or some bizarre belief system.

Hopefully this type of thing will be something we can finally see for what it is.

[Guest]

Richard said. "This type of thing is so offensive that we normally hide it from the world because if this was generally known we would certainly be stigmatized as a cult or some bizarre belief system."

===========================

Tell me who are the "we" that "normally" try & hide things? Don't you know that the conduct of a Christian should be as transparent as sunlight? There is NOTHING that comes from God that is to be lost due to mans feeble attempt to cover things up. Do you have any comments on the subject matter of this thread, or is your duty cycle just to muddy up a pure flowing stream?

[wicklunds]

[Guest]

On July 20 in this thread I asked the following question that went unanswered. Well anyone can answer if they so choose. When I fail to give a reference, immediately I must do so. Here is the questions that went unanswered.

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"Gregory if you are in full agreement with Rons post as you say, then please provide the SOP quote that Ron failed to provide saying that Sister White said not to engage in a conversation with a demon. But can I now ask you a question? We both know the bible verse that say we should walk in the Master footsteps, right? Now a LARGE portion of Jesus's time on this earth was casting out devils why don't the ministers you rub shoulders do the same?"

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Ron maybe you will be the only one willing to answer these questions.

[cardw]

Quote:

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Tell me who are the "we" that "normally" try & hide things? Don't you know that the conduct of a Christian should be as transparent as sunlight? There is NOTHING that comes from God that is to be lost due to mans feeble attempt to cover things up. Do you have any comments on the subject matter of this thread, or is your duty cycle just to muddy up a pure flowing stream?

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Well Ed, obvoiously you don't hide all this ridiculous stuff. I do have some comments. Many of these statements were directed at the contemporaries of Ellen and James White because she had prophesized that Jesus was going to come in her lifetime. In fact they were still setting dates until 1851 and were only evangelizing those who had accepted Miller's message in the great disappointment. These harsh statements were directed at people who were in her group that disagreed with her theology.

Come on, we have people suffer 10 times more who worship or teach people to worship on another day? This is hardly an offense worth torturing someone over. Ellen White was vindictive and taught people about a vindictive God. There is no rational response to killing people over a day of worship. This is the same reasoning that is going on in the radical Islamic theology. If people like you were in charge of a community we would see a return to harsh judgment, vindictive reactions to people who disagreed, and oppression of people's right to believe as they choose.

This is no pure flowing stream you are putting out here. This is the stuff that kills the spiritual life because it is based on revenge and fear. It is so destructive. This is the stuff that places burdens on those who are weak.

[Guest]

Richard after you have done some homework on Revelation 8 & 9, then get back to me. It seems have no desire to know what is truth, and that is bad, you just want to argue, I'm tooo busy for that. Did I see you the other day along side Interstate 5 sign shaking your finger at it, saying "no you are wrong, it is only 108 miles to Bakersfield, NOT 109!!!"

[cardw]

Quote:

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Richard after you have done some homework on Revelation 8 & 9, then get back to me. It seems have no desire to know what is truth, and that is bad, you just want to argue, I'm tooo busy for that. Did I see you the other day along side Interstate 5 sign shaking your finger at it, saying "no you are wrong, it is only 108 miles to Bakersfield, NOT 109!!!"

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Pretty funny Ed. I guess you haven't done your homework on Ellen White or you aren't willing to read what is freely available. This stuff is based on fear and you haven't addressed that. You ignore what is difficult and keep spreading this stuff like you are some kind of expert. This is pretty dishonest and all you really have is a bunch of snide remarks, condemnation of those who disagree, and some pretty hateful Ellen White quotes.

[Guest]

The time period for these demons to be turned loose is the 5th trumpet. The bible alone tells you this in plain english, I think of how plainly the right & the wrong way has been outlined from the very beginning in scripture. Some people take great pride in choosing the wrong way. If there was 10 ways to do something right and only one way to do it wrong, this class of people would choose the wrong way on the first try. When these demons are turn loose from being bound & no humans to play with like a cat to a wounded bird, they want to make up for lost time. Why they even know that time is short. Why do they know??? They know the scriptures better than those people bearing the title "People Of The Book". How much time is left by the time the 5th trumpet arrives? Not much, Plagues one through six last 30 days. Then once God the Father puts a STOP to all mans foolishness by saying from His throne in heaven "IT IS DONE! [Rev.16:17 This will raise the dead in the special ressurrection and give these people a glorified body, because they need a special body to be on the earth "a number of days" until Jesus appears in the sky 45 days later. But the professed people of God today have lost their bearing due to hirling shepherds turing all the signpost around. And when I read all the published Testimonies that are given to us as a people & then see it totally ignored. Why men act as if counsels had never been given, and yet these same people expect the Lord to uplift us and to do great things for us! True, He will help us if we so go about getting first things first and relate ourselves to Him properly. But will He do great thing for us while we are sewing fig leaves together making up our own rules for conduct?? I don't think so!