Administrators Gail Posted April 14, 2013 Administrators Posted April 14, 2013 I am wondering if future persecution, like what accompanies the mark of the beast, will dissolve differences that take up so much of our time now. Will a crisis break us apart further or pull us together? WDYT? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Gibs Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 No Gail it will not disolve differences, the differences are getting bigger all the time. If the present Pope's see of what he has visions for the SDA church materialize I would not venture a guess. You know "emerging church", to church merged may be is his dream. Does he know something Adventists don't, maybe so, I could venture a guess but that is not for me. I do know this, Sabbath keepers will have to bite the bullet and at first it will be the Gentile Sabbath keeper. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Ted Oplinger Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 I am wondering if future persecution, like what accompanies the mark of the beast, will dissolve differences that take up so much of our time now. Will a crisis break us apart further or pull us together? WDYT? When the Remnant comes under global persecution, as it must one day, it will do both. At first differences will be accentuated, as certain peoples and groups will crow about how "right" they were when others decide early on that standing for the Living God's principles just isn't worth the intense scrutiny and pressure. The nominal professions within the Remnant will go first, we are told. How those who split away from the majority of the Remnant will enjoy their self-satisfying glee about how "right" they were, at another's expense. Later, as standing up for being Remnant carries a heavier and heavier price, differences will dissolve - because it will be seen we DON'T have the "luxury" of excluding another Remnant believer simply for having a different understanding on a point of doctrine. Christ's love under such persecution WILL melt and purify us of many of those sharp character issues that cause us to bicker back and forth about "who is more right on what". We will instead focus more on the character of Christ Jesus we have in common, than on how we differ in our understanding. We will recognize we have all eternity to explore those things we currently squabble about - and we will have God right there to guide our efforts. In the end, is one Remnant believer going to continually betray his/her brother to the Beasts on the selfish point of not having uniformity of belief on every doctrinal point? I think not - Christ will not reward such betrayal of trust with a place in His kingdom. Those who contend that anyone believing differently from one's own understanding isn't "Remnant", may well be in danger of being the first to purge away when God places His Remnant peoples into the fires for final preparation. We tend to pat ourselves on the back in thinking we have it all mapped out in how the final movements will go. We think the Sabbath will be the only great test to determine the mark of the Beast, and that it will solely be a Sabbath/Sunday issue at the time of the dreaded Death Decree. In truth, though, the very act of helping a Remnant believer (to one's own peril) may well be the simple, final test God uses to determine who within the last generation really does belong under the banner of Christ. Where does one's sympathies lie? With God's principles of love, or society's desire to rid the "different, and thus dangerous to society" at any cost? Who is willing to help "the least of these", as Jesus said of His lambs, when to do so would cost you your ability to make a living, and likely also your very life? Christ did indeed say that even the least of aid to the least of His lambs would not go unrecognized nor unrewarded by the Great Shepherd of our souls. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
JoeMo Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 From the news and rumors that come from places where the church is persecuted (like China, India, and the Middle East), it seems like persecution has united rather than fractured Chritianity; and has even quieted (but not silenced)theological differences between Christian denominations. I frequently read where SDA missionaries coordinate with other denominations in countries where prostletyzing (sp?) or just being Chritian is illegal. Quote
Administrators Gail Posted April 15, 2013 Author Administrators Posted April 15, 2013 From the news and rumors that come from places where the church is persecuted (like China, India, and the Middle East), it seems like persecution has united rather than fractured Chritianity; and has even quieted (but not silenced)theological differences between Christian denominations. I frequently read where SDA missionaries coordinate with other denominations in countries where prostletyzing (sp?) or just being Chritian is illegal. And that is what I am wondering. When I was homeschooling it was at a time when not many were doing it, not pioneering but still rarely encountered. I found one homeschooling family through a newspaper ad. They were musical and their beliefs tended toward New Age, but we found common ground through educating our children at home. That was the beginning of a long friendship. We were so happy to have found each other and we lived with each other's differences. I think what I'm getting at is there is a point where priorities are narrowed down by importance. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Ted Oplinger Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 From the news and rumors that come from places where the church is persecuted (like China, India, and the Middle East), it seems like persecution has united rather than fractured Chritianity; and has even quieted (but not silenced)theological differences between Christian denominations. I frequently read where SDA missionaries coordinate with other denominations in countries where prostletyzing (sp?) or just being Chritian is illegal. That is why I wrote what I did above. More than fracturing, persecution does bring all Christians together, despite differences of opinion. That has been my studied observation over the last 20 years. What is more, I have noted that persecuted minor faiths begin to grow when subjected to persecution, as people observe these people standing up for something worth standing up for. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Woody Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 From the news and rumors that come from places where the church is persecuted (like China, India, and the Middle East), it seems like persecution has united rather than fractured Chritianity; and has even quieted (but not silenced)theological differences between Christian denominations. I frequently read where SDA missionaries coordinate with other denominations in countries where prostletyzing (sp?) or just being Chritian is illegal. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators Gerr Posted April 16, 2013 Moderators Posted April 16, 2013 Yes, persecution will shake out those who are not truly converted or firmly grafted, even if they agree to all the doctrines of the church. And yes, it will draw the truly converted and firmly grafter together even if they do not agree on every point. Quote
Moderators Kevin H Posted April 16, 2013 Moderators Posted April 16, 2013 I think that it would cause more self exanimation to see if what we believe is truly credible and that all of us have things to learn and unlearn. But we will also be more tolerant of different perceptions if it is honestly Biblical. There were differences between the worship in the north with say Elijah and Elisha and even Samuel (there is evidence that Samuel's sons were not quite as evil as we think, there is evidence that Samuel's sons were more connected to the worship style of the south rather than Samuel's northern style and that this made other northerners uncomfortable and spreading rumors about his sons). We have the differences between say Peter, James and Paul with John keeping the church from splitting back in the first century. Yet, they were of "On Accord" this means they had a unity in diversity, not uniformity. But there will be more self examination and examining of our beliefs and a listening to each other as we want to be as fair to the Bible as we can. Quote
ClubV12 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 The prophecy says the Saints will be "perfectly united". Very near the end of the shaking as I make it. I suspect this is when the loud cry, the final call, is to be given to the world. The end result of which will be severe persecution, such as the world has never seen. Whats the worst the world has seen in terms of death on a massive scale? Not just Christians, anybody, any group, at any time, for any reason. This will be worse... BUT, the Saints will be perfectly united! Until then, it is a worthy goal to move toward unity, that is a theme Sister White expressed and stressed over and over. If we fall short of that goal (and we will), it's OK, keep trying while we "occupy" and wait. Quote
Gibs Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 This may help. Can a Mason be a true Christian? Now check and find out which two church structures have the most Masons in the leadership. I believe you will find the Mormons, Latter Day Saints are tops. Who is the master of Masonry? 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ
Administrators Gail Posted April 16, 2013 Author Administrators Posted April 16, 2013 It might help that the big issue in the last days will be the Sabbath question, which is religious in nature. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
joeb Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 It might help that the big issue in the last days will be the Sabbath question, which is religious in nature. Gail, A question for you. Why will the Sabbath be the big question? I'm not saying it isn't, just wanting to open a discussion. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
Administrators Gail Posted April 16, 2013 Author Administrators Posted April 16, 2013 Might be a good idea to begin a new thread. Be my guest! :) Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
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