A spurious yardstick

[Guest]

"The church cannot measure herself by the world nor by the opinions of men, nor by what she once was". 5T pase 83

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Sitting for 35 years in Adventist churches I notice a trend among church leaders. They mainly MEASURE their success by the admiration & respect coming from those of other faiths. But Satan comes out the winner in this approach. When we let down our guard and stop preaching SDA distinctive messages that makes us what we are, the pliable Aaron’s have stolen a march on us. Is there any Pro-testants anymore among leadership?

[Guest]

In this quote above about the church that cannot measure herself by what she once was & etc. Let me clarify a couple things about the word "church". Well the correct definition for the church is faithful souls, if you are not faithful, then you are not the church at all. Then there is the professed church, she is the one that MEASURE her success by the admiration & respect coming from those of other faiths. The opinions of men mean everthing to this class of people. "Let just all get along, we will do anything you say, even alter the books, just don't use that "cult" word anymore in our direction".

[wicklunds]

Amazing what a little simple observation does isnt it? Funny how I have noticed the same thing and also the interplay between the universities and the churches. A wise man might say, if it is the higher education that is having this effect on faith, it would be better not to have the "higher" education. It's high time we put down the world's books and picked up the inspired books. A couple more world convulsions and SDA's might begin to realize this to a greater degree.

[Guest]

Dennis said. "A wise man might say, if it is the higher education that is having this effect on faith, it would be better not to have the "higher" education. It's high time we put down the world's books and picked up the inspired books."

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YES that is what a wise man would say and DO!!! But this class of people have enjoyed banging their head against a brick wall for so long that is all they know. Just reach for another bottle of pain killers and keep trudging on.

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Dennis I would just love to send to you "The Cowee Mt. School report, this was a self supporting school that Loma Linda ordered to be closed down. This school charged no tution, the student worked for this plus their books & etc. After two years the graduates were ready for the world without losing their objective of WHY they were atending school in the first place. But Loma Linda applied pressure, & the Review slandered the teacher & staff there at Cowee [that were faithful tithe paying members] until thy closed their doors. All the southern states could have had SDA schools like this, Yes what could have been had it not been for a master mind controling things at the helm and all the ring kisser below him would jump at his request.

[wicklunds]

I actually read that particular report already...Quite an eye-opener!!!

[Guest]

Quote:

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wicklunds said:

I actually read that particular report already...Quite an eye-opener!!!

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Yes it is! Someday I plan to post the letter from the founder of this school to Elder Wilcox [Editor of the review] that allowed an article to be published in the Review to slander the Cowee staff to close them down.

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This "Cowee Mountain School Bulletin" is NOT forbidden literature!!! It came from the "office of publication Berring Springs Michigan". So that means any SDA journalist out there could read this without getting you knuckles slapped with a wooden ruler. I will mail this today to the first request since Dennis has already read this report. Send me a PM with you PO box #.

[Gregory Matthews]

Ed:

You have posted the URL before. Interested people have gone to your listed URL. Anyone with web access can read it. Why don't you just post it again? Why are you asking people to send your their address so that you can mail it to them?

You are correct. It is not forbidden literature. Anyone who wants to read it can.

NOTE: This is NOT permission to freely post any URL that exists. CA does screen posted URLs. But, if Ed posts a URL that is direct to his referenced CMSB, I do not see any reason why it should not be left posted. We are restrictive on URLs. But, as long as Ed is talking about it, I see no reason why a direct link to it should not be allowed to stand.

[Guest]

Gregory I realize that in the ACTUAL booklet one can SEE the buildings, interior & exterior, where this web site doesn't show them!!! All the photo are omitted!!! There is nothing secret I'm doing at all & I want nothing or need nothing from anyone. Let me ask you Greg, hadn't you rather hold the HARD COPY of the actual booklet in your than to read it from a screen? If I have broken some Club rule please tell me.

[Gregory Matthews]

Ed, you have not broken any rule of CA. If you want to mail the booklet to people, that is fine. People can send you their address, you can mail, and Club Adventist hs not interest in that. That is private, between you and anyone who wants to request it.

You once posted the Internet site in CA, I simply invited you to do it again, as no one is forbidden to read it.

I publicly invited you to post it because CA is touchy about posted URLs.

But, I certainly do not care if you do not want to post it.

[Guest]

Quote:

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Gregory Matthews said:

Ed, you have not broken any rule of CA. If you want to mail the booklet to people, that is fine. People can send you their address, you can mail, and Club Adventist hs not interest in that. That is private, between you and anyone who wants to request it.

You once posted the Internet site in CA, I simply invited you to do it again, as no one is forbidden to read it.

I publicly invited you to post it because CA is touchy about posted URLs.

But, I certainly do not care if you do not want to post it.

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Thanks Gregory, I will do as you requested. But I must caution serious readers here to have a hanky in your hand as you read.

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http://69.10.163.110/edwhite/cowee_school.html

[This is exactly the URL that I invited Ed to post. CA is very sensitive about posting URLs, and often they are not allowed to be posted, and for good reason. But, I do not feel that this one violates any issues that CA has with posted URLs. That is why I invited Ed to post it. If he is going to talk about it, put it up where you-all can easily read it. It should be noted that my invitation to Ed to post it here is not a statement of where I am on the issue that he brings up. I have not said where I am. I simply feel that he has brought up an issue that is of interest to people, and he and those who want to discuss it can do so. So, here it is folks--GM.]

[Gregory Matthews]

The story of this school is an interesting bit of history in the SDA Chruch. It has never been forbidden reading, and it is well for those interested in SDA history to become knowledgable of it.

For most of our history, there have been those who have felt called by God to work independently, and somewhat outside of the SDA Chruch. Those who have felt such a call are duty boud to respond to it. It is clear that God does call some to an independent work.

Some of these independent institutions have, over time, demonstrated that they were probably not established by God. Others, have demonstrated that they were established in response to a call of God.

In any case, the SDA Chruch of today, cannot do all that God wants done today. It is clear to me that God may need to call for some to begin a work that is organizationally independent of the SDA Chruch. When such is done, and the insititution remains faithful to God's call, God continues to bless it.

But, there are consequences of the choices that one makes. When one goes independent, even in response to God, there are consequences of that. One should not be independent, and expect to be supported by the SDA Church. An independent school should not expect to remain independent and expect the Church to approve of fund-raising within denominational channels, or to expect the Chruch to refer students to that school. Independence requires that the school be independent in financial suppoprt, in attracting students, as well as all other matters.

Yes, the church and that institution can reach an accomodation in which the Church does provide some level of support. But, this will always require some accomodation on the part of the independent institution. That accomodation will require some level of giving up of its independence.

Should the independent institution do that? That is a decision that must be made by the leadership of the institution.

Just as we should be careful about criticizing the motives of those who begin independent institutions, so also we should be careful about criticizing the actions/motives of chruch leadership as they relate to the independent institution.

NOTE: This is a statement of general principles. It is not a statement specific to the school in discussion. No, I am not prohibited from commenting on it.