Cain and Abel

[Sojourner]

So two questions and I guess the answers can only ever be speculative, but I would like to put it up for discussion anyway!

First off, how exactly did Cain kill Abel? To my reading of the Scripture it does not seem to be mentioned and I am not sure if reference is made to it in the Bible in some other place out side of Genesis.

Secondly, why did God allow Cain to live, not only to live but to have a mark placed on him so that no one else could kill him?

[joeb]

So two questions and I guess the answers can only ever be speculative, but I would like to put it up for discussion anyway!

First off, how exactly did Cain kill Abel? To my reading of the Scripture it does not seem to be mentioned and I am not sure if reference is made to it in the Bible in some other place out side of Genesis.

Secondly, why did God allow Cain to live, not only to live but to have a mark placed on him so that no one else could kill him?

With a gun? Who knows? And what difference would it make? Abel is still dead and Cain still killed him.

I would think God marking Cain has to do with God wanting evil to show its true nature, and because God is a God of mercy. He wanted to give Cain a chance to repent and at the same time to quiet the inevitable charge that He was being unfair by killing Cain immediately.

Like you said, it is speculation, but speculation based on God's revealed character.

[ClubV12]

I would rather say it like this, "It's sanctified imagination based on Gods character". And I concur, I do believe that principle applies to Cain.

We should be cautious of pure speculation as we might enter into realms where no man can know the mysteries of God.

[phkrause]

So two questions and I guess the answers can only ever be speculative, but I would like to put it up for discussion anyway!

First off, how exactly did Cain kill Abel? To my reading of the Scripture it does not seem to be mentioned and I am not sure if reference is made to it in the Bible in some other place out side of Genesis.

Secondly, why did God allow Cain to live, not only to live but to have a mark placed on him so that no one else could kill him?

First, I'll agree with joeb, not sure if it matters how or what he used. But if I had to guess, I'd say a rock. Second, I have no idea why, but dgrimm's answer seems very reasonable. Also I'd check to see what EGW says about this. I know she doesn't mention how Cain killed Abel, but pretty sure she has something to say about why God didn't kill him.

[Kevin H]

I am not aware of anyplace where the Bible tells how Cain killed Able. At least part of whey Cain was able to live was to show that God cared and would accept some reaching out to him, and required Cain to have to trust in God's promise. Whether it ultimately a saving trust or not, probably not but I don't know. Cain's punishment was that he had to live the life of Able. Just as Saul/Paul's punishment was that he had to live the life of Stephen.

The 7 fold vengeance meant God's perfect vengeance. A few generations later was a man named Lamech. When he killed someone he said a poem, however he changed the very end of the poem which really changed the meaning...

If Lamech said "If Cain be avenged 7 times then Lamech 7 plus one time" or if he said "If Cain be avenged 7 times, then Lamech 8 times" it would have been faithful to the poetry and would have meant that Lamech was asking for God's mercy and requesting the same protection that Cain was given. Instead Lamech said that he wanted to be avenged seventy seven fold (or could be understood as 70 time 7). What this meant was that Lamech was so full of hate that God's perfect vengeance was not enough to make him happy. It was a contrast between how evil Cain still trusted some what in God, but his descendent had no room for God in his life and was so full of hatred he wanted a ridiculous amount of vengeance, far beyond God's perfect, total and complete vengeance could ever be.

Another interesting story. When Peter asked Jesus "How often shall I forgive my brother, up to 7 times" he was not thinking about counting "1, 2, 3...ok you only have four times left and I'll stop forgiving you." What he meant was "Are we to forgive perfectly and completely? Are we supposed to forgive the way I want God to forgive me?" Peter was hoping that Jesus would reply "I say unto you that you shall for give 7 plus 1 times" or "I say unto you that you shall forgive 8 times" which would have been Jesus saying "You got it Peter!" Maybe he was hoping that Jesus would say that he understood how sometimes we may be so hurt that we cannot forgive as completely as God forgives, so let God forgive them 7 times you just forgive the best that you can" However Jesus turned to the story of Lamech and said to Peter "Out forgive God" "Be so forgiving that God thinks you are crazy and can't comprehend how you can be so forgiving" for Jesus to have such an impossibly high level for forgiveness from us tells us just how important forgiveness is for Jesus.

Another interesting story is did you know that the story of Cain and Able showed up in the New Testament? If you study the sacrifices, Able gave the sin offering which says "God be merciful to me a sinner" Able gave the thank offering ALONE. The offering that Cain gave was acceptable, but if you were to give it, it was to give along with the sin offering. Giving it alone was Cain saying "Thank you that I'm not like other people, like my brother over here..."

[Stewart (SDA)]

I have a couple of thoughts.

#1. We know that Abel's blood was shed. The earth "opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand"(Gen 4:11), thus we may be sure that Cain inflicted a fatal wound.

#2. Cain was 'marked', shielded, from potential retaliation.

Eventually two distinct lines would develop -- Cain's line and Seth's line. These would become the "sons of God" and the sons of men, but Cain was specifically protected, I suggest, from the sons of God - the church.

This aspect of God's character is manifest throughout the history of rebellion. Even at the beginning of the controversy in heaven, "had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished". (DA 764.)They too, were shielded.

[debbym]

Quote:

This aspect of God's character is manifest throughout the history of rebellion. Even at the beginning of the controversy in heaven, "had Satan and his host then been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished". (DA 764.)They too, were shielded.

This is really amazing.

thank-you for sharing this.

it will be a great day when all sin is gone, and a day for the grief to subside. Then there is the assurance that it will not ever rise again.

Then i imagine that none of cain's descendants survived the flood. how would we be sure if none of noah's daughter's in-laws had any of cains genes.

[Ted Oplinger]

Sin must be left to unfold and reveal itself to completeness.

While we do not know with what Cain murdered Abel (tradition holds it was a big rock), we do know that 1) he did, in fact commit the murder; 2) we know it was over the issue of what is the proper way to worship of God (and the reaction to God's acceptance of one over the other); 3) God plead with Cain personally prior to the sin, warning him away from it - illustrating a loving, merciful God holding Cain dear to His heart; and 4) Cain was allowed to go free yet marked, as this was still far too early in the issue of human sin to hold even members of the human race to the consequences of their sin.

Not from humanity's standpoint - but from the perspective of the loyal of God looking on.

Just as had the Rebellious been given the due sentence for their sin, so to would the angelic host not understood should Cain had been allowed to receive due sentence for murdering his brother.

Worship of God would have been based upon FEAR, not a LOVE-RESPONSE.

Blessings,

[Stewart (SDA)]

Debby,

From the beginning we might learn that God loves His enemies, and calls on His creatures to do the same. He loves with an everlasting love -- even those who will have a part in the lake of fire He still loves. His love, however, does not mean salvation.

While on the cross, Jesus was enshrouded in thick darkness. Again, that darkness was [at least in part] to shield the onlookers - both the righteous and the wicked.

The Father's presence was within the cloud, and "had His glory flashed forth from the cloud, every human beholder would have been destroyed." (DA 754)

[Windsor]

From Patriarchs and Prophets,

Notwithstanding that Cain had by his crimes merited the sentence of death, a merciful Creator still spared his life, and granted him opportunity for repentance. But Cain lived only to harden his heart, to encourage rebellion against the divine authority, and to become the head of a line of bold, abandoned sinners. This one apostate, led on by Satan, became a tempter to others; and his example and influence exerted their demoralizing power, until the earth became so corrupt and filled with violence as to call for its destruction.

In sparing the life of the first murderer, God presented before the whole universe a lesson bearing upon the great controversy. The dark history of Cain and his descendants was an illustration of what would have been the result of permitting the sinner to live on forever, to carry out his rebellion against God. The forbearance of God only rendered the wicked more bold and defiant in their iniquity. Fifteen centuries after the sentence pronounced upon Cain, the universe witnessed the fruition of his influence and example, in the crime and pollution that flooded the earth. It was made manifest that the sentence of death pronounced upon the fallen race for the transgression of God's law was both just and merciful. The longer men lived in sin, the more abandoned they became. The divine sentence cutting short a career of unbridled iniquity, and freeing the world from the influence of those who had become hardened in rebellion, was a blessing rather than a curse.