Jim Davidson - Exec Secretary of Southern Union. Sermon

[BobRyan]

We heard a great sermon today in church by Elder Jim Davidson - Exec Sec of the Southern Union.

In that sermon Elder Davidson pointed out that we are either slaves to sin and sinning or slaves to Christ and bound to obedience according to Paul in Romans 1 and Romans 6.

Outstanding sermon!

Tell your friends.

in Christ,

Bob

[olger]

resplendent !!

[Bravus]

...or we're free

[BobRyan]

The third option where God and Satan do not exist - and we are each our own mini-gods in charge of our own life - independent of all of it - was discussed. But the "details" in Romans 1:1-2 and Romans 6:14-18 did not support that idea in Paul's use of the term "slave".

in Christ,

Bob

[OzarkWoman]

We heard a great sermon today in church by Elder Jim Davidson - Exec Sec of the Southern Union.

In that sermon Elder Davidson pointed out that we are either slaves to sin and sinning or slaves to Christ and bound to obedience according to Paul in Romans 1 and Romans 6.

Outstanding sermon!

Tell your friends.

in Christ,

Bob

Sounds like a good sermon, except that nobody is perfect so, you are sinning all of the time, even when you don't think so.

[M. T. Cross]

Or the fourth option Bob, that there are a lot of other Gods that don't demand any kind of slavery at all.

[ClubV12]

If you don't think your sinning, IS it sin?

[M. T. Cross]

I have been sitting here thinking about this thread. How is it that being a slave to Jesus is a good thing? How is being a slave to anything good?

[BobRyan]

Or the fourth option Bob, that there are a lot of other Gods that don't demand any kind of slavery at all.

indeed - but they are mythical.

[BobRyan]

I have been sitting here thinking about this thread. How is it that being a slave to Jesus is a good thing? How is being a slave to anything good?

2Cor 10:4-5 talks about "taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ". And in Romans 1:1 the word for servant is the same word for slave in Romans 6:14-18.

In Gal 2:20 Paul says "I no longer live - but Christ lives in me".

It is a choice of the will each day - to turn it over to God each day and let Him reign as king in our lives.

"Thy kingdom come - THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

Even Christ - the Son of God - God the Son states "not MY will but THY will be done".

He who lives in Christ - is free from slavery to self-serving, slavery to sin, slavery to satan, slavery to death "for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life".

Like all slaves - WE "have been bought with a price".

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Sounds like a good sermon, except that nobody is perfect so, you are sinning all of the time, even when you don't think so.

In the "sinning all the time" view of the Christian life -- there is no such thing as repentance, reformation, obedience - rather you live a life of non-stop-rebellion against God "sinning all the time".

Calvinists sometimes promote that view of Christianity because in that view the lost and the saved live the same "all the time sinning" life and it is nothing more than "arbitrary selection" that selects one to be saved and the other to be lost.

But in Romans 2 Paul says that God is not doing this on the arbitrary and partial basis that the Calvinist imagines.

Hence it is not so common among those who believe in free will - Arminian groups such as Seventh-day Adventist, Methodists etc.

Thus for the Arminian groups - Romans 2 and 1John 3 have meaning.

in Christ,

Bob

[Bravus]

The notion that freedom is impossible, all we have is a choice of slaveries, is pernicious.

Nietzsche, for his many faults, had some useful stuff to say about 'slave mentality'.

Don't believe those who tell you you have to remain a slave: usually they see some benefit for themselves.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Or the fourth option Bob, that there are a lot of other Gods that don't demand any kind of slavery at all.

indeed - but they are mythical.

Oh you mean as opposed to how your god has been proven to not be? I must have missed that somewhere. You think it might have made the news.

ETA - I am not saying your God does not exist btw. Just pointing out the ignorance of your statement.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I have been sitting here thinking about this thread. How is it that being a slave to Jesus is a good thing? How is being a slave to anything good?

2Cor 10:4-5 talks about "taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ". And in Romans 1:1 the word for servant is the same word for slave in Romans 6:14-18.

In Gal 2:20 Paul says "I no longer live - but Christ lives in me".

It is a choice of the will each day - to turn it over to God each day and let Him reign as king in our lives.

"Thy kingdom come - THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

Even Christ - the Son of God - God the Son states "not MY will but THY will be done".

He who lives in Christ - is free from slavery to self-serving, slavery to sin, slavery to satan, slavery to death "for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life".

Like all slaves - WE "have been bought with a price".

in Christ,

Bob

That was not really convincing. I like the fact that I exist. I like the fact that I have my own mind to make my own choices. I can't understand a God that claims to have created us, with the ability to think for ourselves and to be our own individual beings but then asks that we give all those abilities over to him so he can control them. Seems very counter productive.

[ClubV12]

I thought Janis Joplin summed it pretty good, "Freedom, another word for nothing left to loose."

Mortgage? Car payment? Utility bill? Yeah, your a slave to someone.

Some fear the prophecy that says one day Gods people will have to flee for their lives, as has happened so many times in history. When that day comes and you flee into hiding, leave your wallet behind you will be free indeed when you are left to depend wholly upon Him.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Or the fourth option Bob, that there are a lot of other Gods that don't demand any kind of slavery at all.

indeed - but they are mythical.

You know this as fact, how? Can you prove it? What is the first commandment? Oh yeah, You shall have no other gods before me. Could it be because even God knew that there were other gods?

[phkrause]

You know this as fact, how? Can you prove it? What is the first commandment? Oh yeah, You shall have no other gods before me. Could it be because even God knew that there were other gods?

That would be a love for Money, materialism, work, etc., above a love for God. It doesn't need to be an actual God of wood, stone, fire, wind, sea, etc., etc., etc. There many forms of God that that verse is implying.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: OzarkWoman

You know this as fact, how? Can you prove it? What is the first commandment? Oh yeah, You shall have no other gods before me. Could it be because even God knew that there were other gods?

That would be a love for Money, materialism, work, etc., above a love for God. It doesn't need to be an actual God of wood, stone, fire, wind, sea, etc., etc., etc. There many forms of God that that verse is implying.

Right you are, but that does not exclude other gods.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Or the fourth option Bob, that there are a lot of other Gods that don't demand any kind of slavery at all.

indeed - but they are mythical.

no, they are not mythical... but I don't know of *any* of them (gods or goddesses) that are also not demanding of allegiance - and can also have perverse natures, if crossed..

that said, the nature of lesser gods/goddesses is one of being created.. God, otoh, was not created..

(others may or may not agree with me...the above is just my opinion, based on my experiences)

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Or the fourth option Bob, that there are a lot of other Gods that don't demand any kind of slavery at all.

indeed - but they are mythical.

Just a few thoughts to throw in.....

A good look at the various pantheons of "gods/goddesses" reveals that they have several points in common:

1) These "gods/goddesses" are birthed/created by a parent race; these children then rise up, REBEL, and destroy/imprison their "parents". There is the element of rebellion in many pantheons.

2) These "gods/goddesses" always the following representatives: chief "god", queen "goddess", messenger, beauty/fertility, wisdom/justice, earth/industry, prowess/success, war, waters/seas, and death/underworld. Honorable mention gets you thunder/storm/rain, mountain, sun, moon, valley, wine, and air/winds. Nearly every ancient mythos and pantheon has a mix of these.

3) Good and evil co-exist; there never is a complete victory of one over the other.

4) Death is not the cessation of life; life continues on in some version of a paradise (for "good people") or underworld torment (for "evil people).

5) Dominance through the usage of force upon another is the consistent theme for many thoughts: why the "gods/goddesses" are "superior" to mortals, how mortals are to relate to one another, and how the various "gods/goddesses" rank one to another (except for the chief - he's always the dominant one). Indeed, many do not demand slavery - but they are not opposed to enslaving those belonging to "other gods/goddesses".

6) These "gods/goddesses" do not exhibit superior character - many times, they are far more capricious, lustful, debauched and vengeful than the mortals they claim to be superior to.

When I compare these points with the rebellion of Lucifer and his angels, it really drops into place. Lucifer/Satan always wanted God's throne - to be worshiped by all. What was indeed his primary argument among those who followed him into rebellion? You can be your own god/goddess - just like he convinced Adam and Eve.

1) Lucifer/Satan and his followers were created by the Living God. They rose up in rebellion against the Living God. However, they did not succeed in beating/imprisoning the Living God. They create that illusion, though, by having this world isolated from God's presence. God, however, pokes His nose into everything down here, because He loves mankind. The Living God rightfully declares these others to be imposters.

2) With Lucifer/Satan as the "chief god" who can appear as a being of light, the rest of the fallen angels easily take over as "gods/goddesses" over those things very important to people of a particular place and culture.

3) Though some of these "gods/goddesses" are "good", others "evil", and they quarrel and fight amongst each other - Satan will not allow any particular one/faction gain too much power through victory, as that would threaten the chief at the top.

4) Death - this is the very thing that Satan deceived Eve on. He continues to promote this lie, even among his followers, because they continue to live on, while mortal man dies.

5) Dominance through force is the hallmark feature of Satan's rule, and is the very essence of his presence. We see this in Job 1, 2, where as earth's chief, he portrays himself as walking on the earth and treading it underfoot. Likewise, his followers do the same.

The Living God, and His kingdom, are polar opposite: Luke 22:24-27.

6) As even the evil angels are of a different life base than mankind, they exhibit the same character distinctions of sinfulness. Sinful man's character is matched by the fallen angels' characters.

I would submit these "mythical gods/goddesses" aren't so mythical, but are the various generals, captains, and lieutenants within Satan's angelic followers, each playing a assigned part in the effort to thwart the Living God's plan to redeem and restore mankind back unto Himself. We pat ourselves on the back to think we are the sole intelligent species on this planet, yet the Bible says Satan and his angelic followers are also here. Just because we cannot see them does not mean they don't exist.

I would propose further that, just as these various pantheons dropped from being major players in the religious world soon after the cross, Satan and his followers had to adjust their plans. Now, many major non-Christian religions feature...one god with a messenger/prophet. Sound familiar?

From the cross forward, Mithraism sprang up soon after Christ ascended, but is now gone. Then the Beast's version of Christendom, Buddhism, Islam, and others have cropped up and now dominate where Zeus, Jupiter, Baal, and Odin used to.

The same beings that used to play "gods/goddesses" before still have roles to play, but they don't get much dedicated worship as they did before Christ's birth, death, and resurrection. The one thing common to both sides of the cross - zealous adherents to these other religions do not tolerate true living faith in the Living God.

Food for thought...

Blessings,

[phkrause]

[debbym]

Quote:

From the cross forward, Mithraism sprang up soon after Christ ascended, but is now gone. Then the Beast's version of Christendom, Buddhism, Islam, and others have cropped up and now dominate where Zeus, Jupiter, Baal, and Odin used to.

The same beings that used to play "gods/goddesses" before still have roles to play, but they don't get much dedicated worship as they did before Christ's birth, death, and resurrection. The one thing common to both sides of the cross - zealous adherents to these other religions do not tolerate true living faith in the Living God.

I liked your entire post. I have had similar thoughts.

i believer all false Gods are made in our own image. All the gods of nature are how we experience nature so they still spring from within us.

Lucifer tries to lead us to see God as created in His image.

The high and pure nature of God, purely unselfish, and merciful and gracious is impossible for us to comprehend without the Holy Spirit helping us. Every wrong thought and act presses on God as he is omniscient and knows all. The whole system of false religion perfectly appeals to our nature, without lifting us above self interest. Only the living God can do this.

[M. T. Cross]

no, they are not mythical... but I don't know of *any* of them (gods or goddesses) that are also not demanding of allegiance - and can also have perverse natures, if crossed..

[M. T. Cross]

Just a few thoughts to throw in.....

A good look at the various pantheons of "gods/goddesses" reveals that they have several points in common:

1) These "gods/goddesses" are birthed/created by a parent race; these children then rise up, REBEL, and destroy/imprison their "parents". There is the element of rebellion in many pantheons.

[M. T. Cross]

BTW Ted, you keep bringing up the "Living God". Who are the dead ones?