Religious Freedom in the United States

[phkrause]

What does the future hold for the Country? For the Church?

Great article.

http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2013-1502&page=16

[Kevin H]

Very good!!! However I think that he too much gets Jefferson involved on the liberal side, while I understand Jefferson to be more on our side. (In fact there are historians out there who have made arguments that make sense to me that Seventh-day Adventism is an application of Jefferson's philosophy to religion rather than to politics)

At AUC it was pointed out that there were two revolutions in the 18th century. One based on Jefferson's freedom through good laws, the other based on the French Revolution's freedom is freedom from laws and the views that became communism. While Jefferson initially supported the French Revolution, as he saw more of it he realized the different ideals from the American Revolution and what he had been fighting for. Jefferson has been criticized for having a Bible that had references to miracles taken out and that seen as an argument that he did not believe in them. Now I don't know where the professor got this reference from, but we were taught that rather than disbelieving miracles, that Jefferson felt that there were too many religious people who were depending on miracles for their faith instead of building their faith on who Jesus was. That he felt that we were coming to an age of faith in Christ, miracles or not.

Liberty magazine in the 1990s had an article about James Madison. In the article it told about concern between Madison and Jefferson about Patrick Henry wanting to make Virginia a Christian state. Jefferson suggested that they pray that Henry would die. Madison replied that instead of praying for God to take Henry's life, that they should just support Henry becoming Governor. That way he could live, feel he's advancing in life and get his evil influence out of the legislator.

[debbym]

Quote:

Liberty magazine in the 1990s had an article about James Madison. In the article it told about concern between Madison and Jefferson about Patrick Henry wanting to make Virginia a Christian state. Jefferson suggested that they pray that Henry would die. Madison replied that instead of praying for God to take Henry's life, that they should just support Henry becoming Governor. That way he could live, feel he's advancing in life and get his evil influence out of the legislator.

Kevin, your post was an astounding read for me, i loved it. especially the comment i quoted above. thank-you for sharing this.

[Kevin H]

Thank you Deb: We have Four great philosophies that are fighting each other... Catholic Europe (and that includes reformed Catholics as well, the state church, whether it be the church of Rome, Lutheran, England etc.) which the Puritans and Patrick Henry wanted. French Revolution Europe with it's rebellion against the church and pushing for secularism. Third is robber baron industrial America, with the wealthy captains of industry and their workers. And the vision of Jefferson and Madison, of a more agricultural society and you live more independently and worship God according to the dictates of your conscience, a free competition between belief systems and applying the views of Rodger Williams and William Penn, where the government does not interfere with your beliefs as long as it does not hurt others.

The modern Republicans have tended to join with the Robber barons in wanting industrial Catholic Europe. The Robber barons tent do also work with but not as central, the modern Democrats who tend to be wanting to implement French Revolution Europe. Very few are clinging to the Jefferson-Madison view.

[BobRyan]

What does the future hold for the Country? For the Church?

Great article.

http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2013-1502&page=16

[BobRyan]

Europe has almost destroyed the Catholic Church from a religious POV - by emptying its churches in favor of evolutionism.

The senior generation in Europe still holds one - but time is running out for them.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Holds one - meant to say "holds on" - but cannot edit the post 5 seconds after it is posted.

in Christ,

Bob