The Enigma of Zechariah

[Windsor]

One of the great mystery books of the Bible is the book of Zechariah. I can't for the life of me figure out how it could ever be fulfilled as written and I've come to assume most all of it was conditional.

For example, Zechariah 14:

14 Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as [a]when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!

As Adventists understand it, a few parts of this fit into our understanding of the third coming of Christ in that He will set His feet upon the Mount of Olives and the righteous will come with Him from Heaven. However, clearly the rest of it cannot apply. Jerusalem is coming from Heaven so it will not be captured and no one will be ravished.

Jumping ahead to verse 16 which would presumably apply after all the wicked are destroyed.

16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the [h]punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

How will there be any wicked left? How are we to understand this book of Zechariah as well as some of the other Minor Prophets who prophesy things that can no longer take place with Judah or Israel.

[phkrause]

As Adventists understand it, a few parts of this fit into our understanding of the third coming of Christ in that He will set His feet upon the Mount of Olives and the righteous will come with Him from Heaven. However, clearly the rest of it cannot apply. Jerusalem is coming from Heaven so it will not be captured and no one will be ravished.

Third coming? And standing on the earth?? I've never heard this before and as far as I know its the second coming and Jesus' feet never touch the earth, and the righteous don't come down but go up to meet him in the sky.

[Gibs]

This is when after the thousand years Christ brings down the Holy City and makes a great plain to set it on and makes the earth anew.

Yes Zechariah is hard to put together, it reveals too the feast of tabernacles will be kept. Jumps around with many thoughts to discern.

"The city of Jerusalem is no longer a sacred place. The curse of God is upon it because of the rejection and crucifixion of Christ. A dark blot of guilt rests upon it, and never again will it be a sacred place until it has been cleansed by the purifying fires of heaven. At the time when this sin-cursed earth is purified from every stain of sin, Christ will again stand upon the Mount of Olives. As His feet rest upon it, it will part asunder, and become a great plain, prepared for the city of God. {RH, July 30, 1901 par. 2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

It like Ezekiel and other books are very much telling what could have happened had Jesus been accepted. Since Jesus was not accepted the principles will still come through, but things such as chronology will move and specifics will not happen or will happen in other ways.

A good first step is to read the chapter in the SDABC "The Role of Israel in Old Testament Prophecy"

As we understand better what could have been, we will have better understanding as to what will be. I believe that his is something that God wants us to do, however Satan tries to get us off course on one of 3 paths: 1. Not taking the text seriously and blowing it off, such as for liberal scholars, who actually at times may get close to what could have happened but they don't see it more than wishful thinking. 2. With dispensationalists expecting it to be fulfilled in exact detail in the future after the church is raptured away. and 3. Seventh-day Adventists, by making us so firm in what did happen that we don't study what could have happened. We have a nice little car put together what more do we need, despite the fact that we have a whole bunch of left over pieces.

[Ron Amnsn]

One of the great mystery books of the Bible is the book of Zechariah. I can't for the life of me figure out how it could ever be fulfilled as written and I've come to assume most all of it was conditional.

When we filter the Scriptures through our own theology, what is left often doesn't make much sense, because we've started with assumptions that are contrary to Scripture.

Zechariah is God's word. God's word is true. If Zechariah doesn't line up with your beliefs, shouldn't you be questioning whether your own beliefs are erroneous rather than assuming that God's word is erroneous (or "conditional").

Jesus spoke to this in Luke 24:44:

Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

Zechariah says some specific things about the Lord that are still unfulfilled. Jesus says all those things must be fulfilled.

The notion that large portions of the Old Testament prophecies are "conditional" is not based on Scriptures. Yes, a few of the prophecies were indeed conditional, but the applicable conditions are clearly stated in the prophecies themselves.

If your theology requires that you nullify portions of God's word by declaring it "conditional" then aren't you following your own made-up religion rather than following God's word?

Zechariah makes lots more sense when we discard the man-made doctrines that were handed down to us through the church of the Roman empire.

[Planey]

Yes, a few of the prophecies were indeed conditional, but the applicable conditions are clearly stated in the prophecies themselves.

Jonah?

Graeme

[Ron Amnsn]

Jonah?

[Ted Oplinger]

Ron,

I have made the same observations on the word "hapak" on other threads where Jonah has surfaced. The words God inspired Jonah to use put Jonah in a win-win situation: No matter what, Jonah could not be seen as a false prophet. No matter what, the Ninevites would not be the same evil people they were before Jonah arrived.

Unfortunately, Jonah would accept only one end - the one where Nineveh gets destroyed. This narrative almost has the feel that it was included in the Bible for the express purpose of showing how God deals with the unreasonable found within the ranks of the bigger players of His servants, rather than merely a source for a children's story or a story of God's mercy to an undeserving foreign people (though it is those as well).

Blessings,

[Kevin H]

This is when after the thousand years Christ brings down the Holy City and makes a great plain to set it on and makes the earth anew.

Yes Zechariah is hard to put together, it reveals too the feast of tabernacles will be kept. Jumps around with many thoughts to discern

"The city of Jerusalem is no longer a sacred place. The curse of God is upon it because of the rejection and crucifixion of Christ. A dark blot of guilt rests upon it, and never again will it be a sacred place until it has been cleansed by the purifying fires of heaven. At the time when this sin-cursed earth is purified from every stain of sin, Christ will again stand upon the Mount of Olives. As His feet rest upon it, it will part asunder, and become a great plain, prepared for the city of God. {RH, July 30, 1901 par. 2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs, you rightfully see a problem. The issue is that we too much want to study the Bible from how things actually turned out and a fundamentalist mindset that this detailed fulfillment is how it was predicted. Zechariah is one of the books that remind us that the FIRST step in Bible study is what it meant for those people and how God was willing to fulfill it in those details in those days had they cooperated. The SECOND step is applying the principles by analogy to how God still carried out or will still carry out his will despite it not fitting the original frame work that he offered. We all want to jump on step number 2 and ignore step 1. Some texts like Daniel and Revelation so closely were fulfilled that it is easier to do. But there is so much that we are blinded to in Daniel and Revelation that the Holy Spirit wants to open to us if only we will go back and start with Step 1, how it could have been fulfilled back then, then go to step 2 how it was actually fulfilled. This would also give us the key to understanding the riches in say Ezekiel and Zechariah.

[Kevin H]

Ron,

I have made the same observations on the word "hapak" on other threads where Jonah has surfaced. The words God inspired Jonah to use put Jonah in a win-win situation: No matter what, Jonah could not be seen as a false prophet. No matter what, the Ninevites would not be the same evil people they were before Jonah arrived.

Unfortunately, Jonah would accept only one end - the one where Nineveh gets destroyed. This narrative almost has the feel that it was included in the Bible for the express purpose of showing how God deals with the unreasonable found within the ranks of the bigger players of His servants, rather than merely a source for a children's story or a story of God's mercy to an undeserving foreign people (though it is those as well).

Blessings,

True, no matter what happened Jonah would not have appeared to be a false prophet but still past the TRUE Biblical tests of a prophet. Jonah's problem was that Nineveh was the capital of the Assyrian Empire, Israel's biggest threat. Jonah wanted it to be destroyed and wanted the conditions for it's destruction to be met. He did not want it to repent and remain because it would still remain a threat.