Sin and addiction

[joeb]

I see a lot of parallels between these two. Of course addiction itself is sin, but if we look closely at addiction its parallel to sin itself is amazing.

1. It ends in death.

2. It is self-destructive.

3. It destroys families.

4. Even before death it tends to destroy the individual.

5. It is selfishness personified.

6. It results in dishonesty.

7. It causes us to lie to ourselves about our own condition.

8. We believe we cannot live without indulging in it.

This is only a small list to start with. How many more distinguishing marks of addiction and sin can you add to the list.

[Gail]

How about, affects the soul?

[Gail]

Either that, or soul pain leads to the addiction.

[joeb]

How about, affects the soul?

Very good, Gail. I like it.

[joeb]

Either that, or soul pain leads to the addiction.

Both sin and addiction cause pain in our hearts(psychological pain). Very good.

[joeb]

How about the most obvious common attribute of all? Both take a power outside of ourselves for us to defeat it.

[Gail]

Agreed!

[joeb]

JOEB AND GAIL

YES these are the results of both for sure

dgrimm60

What can you add to the list, dgrimm?

[JoeMo]

How about:

10. Causes self-loathing (might be the same as self-destructive.

11. Makes us feel unworthy of God and beyond His help.

12. Pulls us away from God's people and into contact with those who are not God's people (in many cases - I used to get high with people from church).

I see the parallels between addiction and sin; but I don't know if I agree that addiction itself is a sin - at least physical addiction. I am open to the possibility that, while habitual drug use (I include use of alcohol and nicotine here) might be a sin; once a person is physically addicted, they are a slave to the drug; and many times it seems hopeless and impossible to "quit" without outside intervention. I'm not saying it's not a sin; but I am not the judge - God is.

I am also aware of people who become addicted because drugs are involuntarily forced upon them until they are addicted - like in the sex slave trade. I also make a distinction between addiction to narcotics for recreational purposes and physical dependence for pain control. For example, if someone is dependent upon oxycontin for pain control so they can function somewhat normally instead of being totally debilitated by irretractable pain, I'd be the last one to call that person a sinner.

[cricket]

I've heard of people being addicted to God. Do you suppose that can be a bad thing too?

[Ted Oplinger]

I'll throw in these...

It deceives us by telling us "just one more time, and it will be OK to quit..." and "there's nothing wrong with it, because I'm only affecting me"...

It interrupts your ability to think rationally and clearly - you cannot discern what is right and godly, and what is not.

Blessings,

[debbym]

Quote:

I've heard of people being addicted to God. Do you suppose that can be a bad thing too?

Since we cannot reach God we cannot become addicted to God. we cannot use God.

But we can use religion. addiction to religion? absolutely if the addiction is to religious behavior. the addiction process results in an absence of personal development and growth. addiction by definition is harmful. I think addition in the area of religion may be harder to see.

whether it is addiction to religious exercises, shopping eating, gambling substances... on and on. Addiction is when the person has a compulsive dependency on behavior or substances for a sense of well being, instead of trust and healthy choices, and learning, and growing, which increases capacity to be responsible and to Love.

Quote:

addiction definition Addiction is a persistent, compulsive dependence on a behavior or substance. The term has been partially replaced by the word dependence for substance abuse. Addiction has been extended, however, to include mood-altering behaviors or activities. Some researchers speak of two types of addictions: substance addictions (for example, alcoholism, drug abuse, and smoking); and process addictions (for example, gambling, spending, shopping, eating, and sexual activity

Quote:

addiction results,

loss of willpower

harmful consequences

unmanageable lifestyle

tolerance or escalation of use

withdrawal symptoms upon quitting

[joeb]

Quote:

I've heard of people being addicted to God. Do you suppose that can be a bad thing too?

Since we cannot reach God we cannot become addicted to God. we cannot use God.

But we can use religion. addiction to religion? absolutely if the addiction is to religious behavior. the addiction process results in an absence of personal development and growth. addiction by definition is harmful. I think addition in the area of religion may be harder to see.

whether it is addiction to religious exercises, shopping eating, gambling substances... on and on. Addiction is when the person has a compulsive dependency on behavior or substances for a sense of well being, instead of trust and healthy choices, and learning, and growing, which increases capacity to be responsible and to Love.

Quote:

addiction definition Addiction is a persistent, compulsive dependence on a behavior or substance. The term has been partially replaced by the word dependence for substance abuse. Addiction has been extended, however, to include mood-altering behaviors or activities. Some researchers speak of two types of addictions: substance addictions (for example, alcoholism, drug abuse, and smoking); and process addictions (for example, gambling, spending, shopping, eating, and sexual activity

Quote:

addiction results,

loss of willpower

harmful consequences

unmanageable lifestyle

tolerance or escalation of use

withdrawal symptoms upon quitting

So, debbym, do you see the parallels in what you describe from addiction as also being attributes of sin?

[joeb]

How about:

10. Causes self-loathing (might be the same as self-destructive.

11. Makes us feel unworthy of God and beyond His help.

12. Pulls us away from God's people and into contact with those who are not God's people (in many cases - I used to get high with people from church).

I see the parallels between addiction and sin; but I don't know if I agree that addiction itself is a sin - at least physical addiction. I am open to the possibility that, while habitual drug use (I include use of alcohol and nicotine here) might be a sin; once a person is physically addicted, they are a slave to the drug; and many times it seems hopeless and impossible to "quit" without outside intervention. I'm not saying it's not a sin; but I am not the judge - God is.

I am also aware of people who become addicted because drugs are involuntarily forced upon them until they are addicted - like in the sex slave trade. I also make a distinction between addiction to narcotics for recreational purposes and physical dependence for pain control. For example, if someone is dependent upon oxycontin for pain control so they can function somewhat normally instead of being totally debilitated by irretractable pain, I'd be the last one to call that person a sinner.

JoeMo,

Thanks for weighing in. Do you see self-destructive behavior as coming from, and being a part of sin? If yes, then isn't it sin?

I agree with you on the forced addiction.

I don't think recognizing something as sinful behavior is being judgmental of anyone. Am I being judgmental if I recognize stealing as sin? How about lying? To me being judgmental is all about condemning someone, rather than reaching out to help because we recognize the need they have.

[joeb]

I'll throw in these...

It deceives us by telling us "just one more time, and it will be OK to quit..." and "there's nothing wrong with it, because I'm only affecting me"...

It interrupts your ability to think rationally and clearly - you cannot discern what is right and godly, and what is not.

Blessings,

Good parallels, Ted.

[joeb]

I came up with a couple of more parallels over night.

Both sin and addiction rely on "nature" and "nurture" to infect the next generation with their sickness.

Jesus is the antidote for both sicknesses.

[Ted Oplinger]

Jesus is the antidote for both sicknesses.

This.

X a million (just for starts)

[olger]

I came up with a couple of more parallels over night.

Both sin and addiction rely on "nature" and "nurture" to infect the next generation with their sickness.

Jesus is the antidote for both sicknesses.

FOR-sooth!!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I don't think recognizing something as sinful behavior is being judgmental of anyone. Am I being judgmental if I recognize stealing as sin? How about lying? To me being judgmental is all about condemning someone, rather than reaching out to help because we recognize the need they have.

I gotta agree with you on all points, joeb.

Question - are we sinning if we don't reach out and help and encourage those who engage in these behaviors? I'm not talking about rebuke and condemnation; I'm talking about help and encouragement (this might include holding them accountable). What if they don't want help yet? Do we let them hit bottom?

[debbym]

Quote:

So, debbym, do you see the parallels in what you describe from addiction as also being attributes of sin?

addiction is not the fruit of the Spirit.

addiction is the work of the flesh.

as for addiction being sin..... if we know something is wrong and we do it, it is sin.

God winks at ignorance.

is a disease sin? is blindness sin? is a birth defect sin? is a killer storm sin? or is it the fruit of sin. is homosexuality sin? is addiction sin? is obsessive compulsive disorder sin? is depression sin? is suicide sin? is a personality disorder sin? is narcissism sin? you can be born with a gene that causes you to become an alcoholic with one drink of alcohol. are these things sin or are these things the consequences, or curse of sin.

does the impact of sin rob us? yes the curse is on the whole earth. we fight social entropy, and it is the curse. but is the curse of sin sin? can these things bring suffering and harm? Yes.

is sin a disease itself? or is disease the consequence of sin. Are the consequences of sin sin?

i heard on the list somewhere that God corrects sin with more sin. so is it that suffering increases till we come to the bottom of the barrel and cry out for God? the addict will not fight it till he is at the very bottom so we are told, when there is no place but up.

i think these are good questions.

i don't think we perish because we are sinners, but because we reject the grace offered to save us. so is it your addiction or when you choose your addiction over the grace offered you and you know it that it becomes sin.

[joeb]

Quote:

I don't think recognizing something as sinful behavior is being judgmental of anyone. Am I being judgmental if I recognize stealing as sin? How about lying? To me being judgmental is all about condemning someone, rather than reaching out to help because we recognize the need they have.

I gotta agree with you on all points, joeb.

Question - are we sinning if we don't reach out and help and encourage those who engage in these behaviors? I'm not talking about rebuke and condemnation; I'm talking about help and encouragement (this might include holding them accountable). What if they don't want help yet? Do we let them hit bottom?

Do we sin when we don't love our fellow man? Of course. Selfishness is sin, and not helping our fellow man when we are capable of doing so is selfishness. Does someone have a choice as to whether or not they want help? Do bears live in the woods?

[joeb]

is a disease sin? is blindness sin? is a birth defect sin? is a killer storm sin? or is it the fruit of sin. is homosexuality sin? is addiction sin? is obsessive compulsive disorder sin? is depression sin? is suicide sin? is a personality disorder sin? is narcissism sin? you can be born with a gene that causes you to become an alcoholic with one drink of alcohol. are these things sin or are these things the consequences, or curse of sin.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I don't see how it is possible to separate sin and sinners when the sinner chooses to cling to sin. God doesn't seem to be able to do that, and when He finally destroys sin He destroys the sinners right along with sin.

Do sinners choose to cling to sin? Romans 6 talks about us being slaves to sin until we put our faith in Jesus.

While your answers to debbym's post make some sense, I think Deb raises some very challenging questions that aren't as easily answered as you make them sound. IMO, the bottom line to her questions is the realization that we have messed up so badly (with satan's help) that nothing but an omnipotent Redeemer can dig us out of the pit we are in. We are approaching the terminus of the irreversible spiral into the end of this Age. As Paul says in Romans 7:

Quote:

Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

i think these are good questions.

They are GREAT questions, deb. As usual, my response to your posts is that you have an amazing spiritual gift that I totally envy - not in a bad way; but in a very admirable way. Thanks so much for your spirit-filled insight!

Blessings,

JoeMo

[JoeMo]

Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil. (Ezek 13:23)

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23)

no one living is righteous before you. (Ps.143:2)

“There is no one righteous, not even one; (Rom. 3:10)

I infer from these and tons of other verses that every human who ever lived (except Jesus) was/is addicted to sin without a Redeemer.