True Christian Unity

[Gibs]

Truly there can be among people aspiring the Christian Way a unity of groups here and there that are in unity of what they have come to believe, but is not necessarily True Christian Unity.

Unity in different denominations in even wrong teachings is possible but is not TRULY Christian Unity!

There is only one way that True Christian Unity can be had and that is by following only ONE leader and all in the church being lead ONLY of His Spirit.

Notice He tells us,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

That is not just a casual statement but is a wonderful promise!

Now let us realize something, and that is, to have True Christian Unity all must be of "His Spirit of Truth."

Now, let us ask ourselves this question, Where in all the churches with a denominational name do we see True Christian Unity?

We have to realize this, Christian Unity is far more and higher than is any association or denomination or federation or council even of all the Christians in the world for any purpose or upon any platform or in any cause or in submission to any church-government. And it is so well worth having that it is worth more than all other things put together.

Why? Because,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship him IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.

When we are all led of His Spirit and all worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, we will have True Christian Unity, but not until!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Christianity needs True Christian Unity now as it has never before and is getting further from it with the great majority.

Yes we can have it

Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

His Church led of Him and the Apostles had it, we can too!

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Gerr]

How could you be led by His SPIRIT and then deny the personhood of that same Spirit?

[Gibs]

It is simple Gerry, no denial here as my God, Yahweh is Spirit, the very person of the one and only God, no mystery at all!

Jesus said it and I believe it,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Gerr]

-We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.--Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.) {Ev 616.5}

The Holy Spirit is a person, for He beareth witness with our spirits that we are the children of God.

White, E. G. (1946). Evangelism (616). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.--Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897) {Ev

White, E. G. (1946). Evangelism (617). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[Naomi]

[Gibs]

Yes, Gerry, I agree the Holy Spirit is a person, yes the very person of God the Father.

Jesus said it and I believe it Brother,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But my thrust here is Christian Unity and I want you all to know it is not being had in any denominational church structures of men!

There is little groups in them all united in some error teaching, but that is not Christian Unity.

Christian Unity will and can only be had when all worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. And the scriptures tell us MUST be worshipped in SPIRIT and in TRUTH!

Don't we know the problem here? There is a wrong spirit in the structures of men or it could be.

The Spirit of Truth which is the Comforter has come and if we are with Him then we have that Blessed Unity.

That Dear Ones is in His Church, the One He established on Himself. No it has never fallen in error and never will!

How do I know? Because HE SAID SO!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[JoeMo]

As shown above (tastefully and kindly I might add), doctrinal unity does not exist even within our own denomination, much less across all of Christendom. The stories in Acts and the differences between the epistles indicate that there was not even doctrinal unity in apostolic days. I may be jaded; but I don't think complete doctrinal unity (aka uniformity) is even possible prior to the latter rain (maybe not even then). Could the unity Christ speaks of be a unity of purpose (tell the whole world of Jesus and His grace and salvation); and a unity of brotherly love for one another, regardless of doctrinal unity (See 1 Cor. 13)?

[Gibs]

The Apostles all came into that desired Unity at Pentecost and what is coming will be greater than that day.

When the Spirit of the Comforter is received which is the Spirit of Truth then it will be.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Spirit of Truth is here with us now, let us all receive it!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Gerr]

Yes, Gerry, I agree the Holy Spirit is a person, yes the very person of God the Father.

the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.--Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897) {Ev

What you are saying is that the Holy Spirit and the Father are one and the same. The quote says:

"the third person," did you catch that?

[Ted Oplinger]

As shown above (tastefully and kindly I might add), doctrinal unity does not exist even within our own denomination, much less across all of Christendom. The stories in Acts and the differences between the epistles indicate that there was not even doctrinal unity in apostolic days. I may be jaded; but I don't think complete doctrinal unity (aka uniformity) is even possible prior to the latter rain (maybe not even then). Could the unity Christ speaks of be a unity of purpose (tell the whole world of Jesus and His grace and salvation); and a unity of brotherly love for one another, regardless of doctrinal unity (See 1 Cor. 13)?

Doctrinal unity is not the unity spoken of in Acts which prepared the disciples for the outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost. It was the spiritual unity found with agape love for one another and the confession and putting away of all interpersonal sins hindering that love between one another. It is the spirit of loving one another with agape love in spite another holding a different doctrinal perspective which was the key to the pouring out of the Spirit.

The sum of what Acts 2:1 speaks of is found in Luke 24: 50-53, Acts 1: 12-14, and 1 Corinthians 13. Agape love is the real test of whether we are really honest with God and each other...particularly when either do not agree with one's own perspective and understanding.

Blessings,

[JoeMo]

Quote:

It was the spiritual unity found with agape love for one another and the confession and putting away of all interpersonal sins hindering that love between one another.

Amen, Ted! You have such a great way with words!

I am reminded of an early contemporary Christian Song "They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love".

[phkrause]

Yes JoeMo and doesn't Jesus tell us that! If we love him we will love our neighbor as our self.

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Yes, Gerry, I agree the Holy Spirit is a person, yes the very person of God the Father.

the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit.--Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37. (1897) {Ev

What you are saying is that the Holy Spirit and the Father are one and the same. The quote says:

"the third person," did you catch that?

That is what EGW said, the scripture says and Jesus Words,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

The Word overides in this case and if there were more than one person God then there would be more than one God.

And we know that ONE God is a jealous God and says,

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

[Gibs]

I prefer to keep this thread on the subject of TRUE Christian Unity.

And can this be? Yes I believe it can be and will be of those that are in HIS CHURCH.

Joh 16:13 How beit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Spirit of TRUTH is none other than the Comforter and yes He has come now for many ages.

So don't we see that those who have this "Spirit of Truth" are certainly guided into all truth as He said.

So Dear ones, I venture to tell you all these that are of that Spirit are certainly in Christian Unity as that Spirit is The Comforter of which that is His Work.

And did you notice the bonus, "and he will show you things to come."

The verse also state ALL TRUTH!

That is the icing on the cake, ALL TRUTH! So then there can be no doubt that these are in solid Unity!

The Crux of the matter is we must have this "SPIRIT OF TRUTH" and receive it ALL from Him.

Ah He wants us to have it is the great thing, let us reach out to Him and it is ours.

Joh 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

[Gerr]

I prefer to keep this thread on the subject of TRUE Christian Unity.

And can this be? Yes I believe it can be and will be of those that are in HIS CHURCH.

So tell us how this unity can be achieved when there are people who cling to a pet theory and separate themselves from HIS CHURCH?

[Gibs]

I didn't separate from HIS CHURCH, I came out as He has called and am one of His now worshipping Him in Spirit and in Truth.

If this is a theory Gerry then you must show me and others where and when the Church He Built on Himself the Rock ever was prevailed against by the gates of hell!

I'm telling you and all, IT NEVER DID FALL! There need not ever have been any structures called churches started.

Besides you must really know that only God could build His Church and Jesus Christ was His Chosen Builder. He alone is it's Head, He alone is it's Organizer and He alone is the Ordainer.

It must be that He alone is all of the above or the gates of hell would have prevailed over it.

He said it and I am an undoubtful believer! - - - Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Truly EGW saw this too!

"God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. {UL 315.5}

Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls. The glory of God has penetrated the prison walls, flooding with glorious beams of heavenly light the darkest dungeon. His saints may suffer, but their sufferings will, like the apostles of old, spread their faith and win souls to Christ and glorify His holy name. The bitterest opposition expressed by those who hate God's great moral standard of righteousness should not and will not shake the steadfast soul who trusts fully in God. . . . {UL 315.6}

They that will be doers of the word are building securely, and the tempest and storm of persecution will not shake their foundation, because their souls are rooted to the eternal Rock.--Letter 108, Oct. 28, 1886, to her older sister and her husband who had not accepted the Sabbath truth." {UL 315.7}

Rooted and grounded in Him and in Him only is our safe refuge!

When we are we will have True Christian Unity!

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Ted Oplinger]

I prefer to keep this thread on the subject of TRUE Christian Unity.

And can this be? Yes I believe it can be and will be of those that are in HIS CHURCH.

And how do you define this "TRUE Christian unity" to be, Gibs? Doctrinal "unity" based upon one's interpretation of John 16:3?

Just a little bit earlier in this section of John's Gospel, Jesus made a clarifying remark about how people will know the disciples...and I don't think it reads that Christ's followers will be known for their doctrinal unity John 13:34, 35). Indeed, the early Church was far from united on doctrines when the Gospel turned the world upside-down. That would lead me to conclude that doctrinal unity does not occupy the top-most important spot in God's desire to turn the world upside-down again at the close of time.

It is easy to think a person has unity with a few people when they think alike on certain points; the trick to unity is whether it is displayed when there is every reason for it not to be present. That is why self-sacrificing agape love is the strongest argument God is present in His people, and is the strongest foundation for unity.

Romans 13:10 states, "Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law." With this statement, Christ's own discourse with His disciples from John 13-John 16 about love and abiding in God can be seen.

People can hold the same uniform beliefs, yet have intense hatred in their heart for other people. Where God's self-sacrificing love is, people will love one another, regardless of their doctrinal perspective.

Abiding in God's agape, self-sacrificing love was a hallmark of Christ's testimony while here on earth with us, and it will again be a hallmark of Christ's testimony as borne by the Remnant Church in the final movements leading up to the Second Coming.

[Gibs]

It is not doctrinal unity that is needed we have that with a lot of members in each and every denomination.

We need and can have True Christian Unity in the Truth. His Spirit is given to do just that.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into "all" truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

That Spirit of Truth is the Comforter.

Joh 15:26 ¶ But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

All who receive the Spirit of the Comforter will be guided into ALL TRUTH, as it is stated. So the fruit of that is True Christian Unity.

No it cannot be had in any denominational church structures of today, it cannot happen. Too many diverse teachers and so much error.

If ALL are guided into ALL THE TRUTH then SUCCESS! All then are united in Truth!

God does it by His Spirit sent of Him for the Comforter, the Spirit of Wonderful Truth.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Ted Oplinger]

It is not doctrinal unity that is needed we have that with a lot of members in each and every denomination.

We need and can have True Christian Unity in the Truth. His Spirit is given to do just that.

Then on that particular point, we are well agreed.

Blessings,

[Jeannieb43]

Unity and uniformity are two different concepts.

[Naomi]

Jeannie, Excellent!!!

[Gibs]

It is wonderful to realize the Spirit of Truth, The Comforter will guide us into ALL TRUTH!

It not only will bring True Christian Unity of the whole Body of Christ but will make each free!

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Ted Oplinger]

Unity and uniformity are two different concepts.

Yes, Jeannie, I know this fully well. It can almost be said uniformity is the counterfeit of true unity....

The vast majority of those pushing unity through doctrine are not pushing unity, but rather uniformity.

If you dig down and look closely at what others are pushing as "true unity", they define it ultimately in terms that such unity is shown only when people believe the same way they do...which is again, uniformity, and not unity. Many are these calls today, as it is easier for human pride to try to get the doctrine right than it is to get it right between people.

True Christian unity is motivated by and characterized by agape, self-sacrificing love.

Blessings,

[joeb]

Yes, Jeannie, I know this fully well. It can almost be said uniformity is the counterfeit of true unity....

The vast majority of those pushing unity through doctrine are not pushing unity, but rather uniformity.

If you dig down and look closely at what others are pushing as "true unity", they define it ultimately in terms that such unity is shown only when people believe the same way they do...which is again, uniformity, and not unity. Many are these calls today, as it is easier for human pride to try to get the doctrine right than it is to get it right between people.

True Christian unity is motivated by and characterized by agape, self-sacrificing love.

Blessings,