I Don't Like Church... thoughts?

[Stan]

http://www.prodigalmagazine.com/i-dont-like-church/

I don’t like church. And if I had to make a wager, I’d say the average Christian church doesn’t know what to do with me.

My church-attending routine is minimalist: in the door two-and-a-half minutes before the service begins; out thirty seconds after the closing prayer. Until recently, when I escaped before the end of the sermon and did my own prayer in the nursery hallway.

“I’m frustrated, God, but it’s not You–it’s Your church!”

I spent my twenties tasting a dozen flavors of churches, from Baptist to Catholic. I’d volunteer, build friendships, and tithe. Then my family moved, the church split, or a pseudo-romance fizzled. Weary, I’d return to Church Hopping 101, hoping that next time would be different. And after growing up as a pastor’s kid and graduating from Bible college, I made a venture into the Eastern Orthodox Church.

I wasn’t alone. Young adults are leaving the Protestant church in droves, seeking truth, reverence, a theology transcending praise choruses and potlucks. I wanted this new, Orthodox version of me to work. I wanted to believe what they said to believe, do what they said to do, and feel confidence God approved of it all.

But instead of finding a sort of Orthodox nirvana, my faith splintered and imploded.

Last year I stumbled back to my childhood faith, hungry for things so often missing in church–the very things God says are here, whether I like it or not. Whether I like the form they come in or not.

I wanted a stable community where honesty was welcome and failure was accepted. But we’re a generation whose comfort zone is in transience. Our relationship with church can resemble a spiritual friends-with-benefits pact: pleasurable companionship with the option to bail when something better appears.

I’ve been guilty of this more than once.

Plus the church has both helped and hurt me—often simultaneously.

Its potential to heal is tied to the risk of new wounds; we all participate in the helping and hurting. Holding ourselves to impossible standards, we condemn others when they fall short. An acquaintance calls me damaged goods because I’m a divorced mom. I seethe at her narrow-minded judgment.

We both feel superior.

We both sin. We both crave community even as we hamstring it with our actions.

Before my first marriage, I felt accepted and worthy of belonging to a church.

Now with two failed marriages, a toddler, and raging PTSD, I don’t fit. When someone initiates contact, it feels more like pity than friendship, though maybe that is my insecurities talking. When the singles events occur, I’m tucking my son into bed and settling in for a night of work.

When a young mom asks for a playdate, I don’t want to tell her I have a therapy appointment.

How much of my dislike of church is due to others, and how much is due to my failure to meet private expectations of a model Christian?

Could part of my struggle be rooted in my desire to control relationships?

When I told one of my closest Orthodox friends that I was returning to a Protestant church, her response stung.

“It’s just as well,” she shrugged. “You didn’t make a very good Orthodox Christian anyway.”

Problem is, I don’t make a good Protestant either. How ironic that I grappled with my then-Orthodox faith at the same time my dad and brother were writing their book on why Millennials are leaving the church. By the time The Post-Church Christian released I was attending a nearby Protestant church, despite feeling out-of-place.

My relationship with God feels more strained than strengthened by going.

I’ve yet to participate in a Protestant communion. One attempt landed me a shaky mess in that nursery hallway. A foundational sacrament of our faith paralyzes me, but I cry reading to my son from his Bible storybook. I choke on phrases like “I’m trusting God,” or “I’ll be praying for you.”

I’m often angry at God and some days I hardly pray. The last time someone asked me “how are you?” I almost resorted to a bitter, “You don’t want to know.”

Still, I keep going to church.

I’ve had to learn, there are some things I’ll never understand about God, the Bible, and Christians.

I’m now challenging myself to mature my faith in an imperfect situation. I am loving God in the confusion. Going to church is not about getting what I want or hearing what I agree with. God uses committed, honest people to make church what it needs to be: a haven of healing and hope.

We do it imperfectly, but we are the ones with a chance to get it somewhat right. That means I attend church.

Have you ever felt uncomfortable in church? Did you stay or leave?

[cricket]

My thought? I don't like church either.

[olger]

I think Church is great !!

[Gail]

I have had thoughts like this at times. I think we all do.

There are a couple thoughts that come to my mind that might help ease the loneliness. I don't know exactly what would be HER answer, but here's my two bits worth:

- as much as possible, find even the tiniest blessing to share at church with someone. Even in the darkest shadowy valley there are always things that make the day a bit better. If it is nothing other than your kid laughing at something, make a point of appreciating it. I know it's hard when your day is dark and foggy, but learning to recognize those brighter spots helps.

- when you go to church with a feeling that you want to give to God, to worship in appreciation to Him instead of wanting it to fill a need of yours, the attitude will change. I know it is better to have friends to meet there, etc, but I know from experience that sometimes that's not going to happen. When I was in that rut I determined that I would go to church with praise to God in mind, that I would give Him glory, no matter how small and no matter if anyone joined me.

- I agree that a church service should be relevant to the spiritual health of the congregants, however that translates. Even the youth can handle heavier topics that pertain to what they face in everyday life.

- Don't be afraid of the wisdom of God's word. It is deep and uplifting when it connects with hearts.

[Gail]

I am glad that the author resolved to learn something from her current experience. God doesn't waste anything... the pain she is enduring today may give her a ministry once she's through this time.

I do wish, though, that I knew of a way to include better those who feel isolated.

[M. T. Cross]

This is the very thing that makes denominational religions such a bad thing in my opinion. They tell you how things are, how you are supposed to be, act, feel, they tell you what your god expects out of you, and what your rewards if you do all those things properly are. They come with pressure, they come with demands and judgement.

That sounds an awful lot like a job to me and I don't think that ones spiritual life should be a job.

A persons spiritual experience in life should be based in a foundation of hope, trust, a relationship that is a two way street of giving and receiving between them and that that they find sacred. This generally is not going to happen in a denominational organized religion. There one finds a set of rules that dictate their spiritual path.

Now I am fully aware that someone, maybe most people would look at that and say, "But I feel very blessed by my experience with my organized denominational religion". Thats great. I can't disagree with you because, a) I am not you and have no right to say how it makes you feel or does not make you feel, and b)I know for a fact that some people do feel that way.

See for the most part we are socially driven creatures. We need and seek the approval and support of others. We like rules and we like to be told how things are and we like to be handed a framework to go by. It makes things less complicated. My personal opinion is that people that feel greatly blessed by a dogmatic organized denominational religion are feeling more blessed by the social acceptance and structure than they are by an actual spiritual experience. Thats fine, and within that there can be spiritual growth as well. There is an energy that is very spiritually powerful within a group mentality.

But there are always people, I am one of them, that seek the pure spiritual experience for what it is in of itself. It can be shocking to find that out about yourself, particularly if you come from that structured social based religious type back ground. When I first joined the Gwyddon College I belong to, I was shocked to find that there was not a list of dogmatic rules I had to follow, that there was not a written in stone blue print of how I must act and be. I was also shocked to realize that those were the things that had kept me from engaging in a spiritual life for so many years. Instead I have discovered a set of tools to find out what I need to find out as it relates to my life and my experience. A set of tools that help me have the best spiritual experience I can have. That experience will likely be very different in many ways from other people withing the group, though there certainly will be moments of synchronicity. But the point is that while it is important to have a spiritual community, if it is to tightly based in dogma, image and rules, it can be very damaging for those that approach spirituality from a very personal point of view.

Reading this woman's story it strikes home in a lot of ways. I think it can be harder, much harder for people that grew up in very religious families. My dad was not a preacher, but the amount of time he spent dedicated to religion, and more to the point the amount of time he spent driving that religion into our heads would rival that of any preacher. It was all about the church, about the guidelines that the SDA church has set out. I don't say this in a condemning way, because after a lot of soul searching and anger, I have come to realize that he was doing what he believed with all his soul to be the right thing. But it was one of those things that made it really difficult and dark for me when I realized that I would never fit in with that kind of dogmatic structure. That the rules and image of a religion would never be more important to me than my own personal spiritual journey.

Gail mentions that she knew of a way to include better those who feel isolated. Maybe the way to do that is to not try to fit them into the mold, but to see how their view and their approach can add to your experience as well. To find out what they are seeking and show an interest in their uniqueness.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

This is the very thing that makes denominational religions such a bad thing in my opinion. They tell you how things are, how you are supposed to be, act, feel, they tell you what your god expects out of you, and what your rewards if you do all those things properly are. They come with pressure, they come with demands and judgement.

That sounds an awful lot like a job to me and I don't think that ones spiritual life should be a job.

Agree.

Quote:

A persons spiritual experience in life should be based in a foundation of hope, trust, a relationship that is a two way street of giving and receiving between them and that that they find sacred.

Yup!

Quote:

Maybe the way to do that is to not try to fit them into the mold, but to see how their view and their approach can add to your experience as well. To find out what they are seeking and show an interest in their uniqueness.

Yes, listen, see life through their eyes!!

[BobRyan]

This is the very thing that makes denominational religions such a bad thing in my opinion. They tell you how things are, how you are supposed to be, act, feel, they tell you what your god expects out of you, and what your rewards if you do all those things properly are. They come with pressure, they come with demands and judgement.

That sounds an awful lot like a job to me and I don't think that ones spiritual life should be a job.

So if you were going to invent a god of your own making - he would be a lot more like you? Easy going, Fun to be around. Interesting at parties. Live and let die because in this life it is all good.

[CoAspen]

Comment unrelated to quote.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

This is the very thing that makes denominational religions such a bad thing in my opinion. They tell you how things are, how you are supposed to be, act, feel, they tell you what your god expects out of you, and what your rewards if you do all those things properly are. They come with pressure, they come with demands and judgement.

That sounds an awful lot like a job to me and I don't think that ones spiritual life should be a job.

So if you were going to invent a god of your own making - he would be a lot more like you? Easy going, Fun to be around. Interesting at parties. Live and let die because in this life it is all good.

As CoA comments, I fail to see how your response has anything to do with what you quoted, I will address your comment regardless.

I guess if one was to invent their own god that would be the case. However if that is what you got out of what I said, then either I fail at communicating or you fail at reading the communication.

I am not addressing any one particular religious path at all. Be it one of the thousands of Christian denominations, Muslim sects, Buddhist practices, Pagan/Heathen traditions, it still stands. Where you have dogmatic denominational organized religion, you have the great risk to stifle personal spiritual growth. It becomes more about the "church, mosque, temple, coven, college, kindred, whatever you want to label it as" than it does about the actual spirituality. It can happen in any organized religion. The religion is what becomes demanding.

Note that I mentioned give and take between the person and the god they honour or worship. Deity can be demanding without a doubt. Sometimes that relationship is work, sometimes it is frustrating and sometimes it seems unfair. Your God, my Gods, the other persons Gods, they kind of are all the same that way it seems. But there is a huge difference between the demands of the Gods and the demands of human made, human operated and human controlled religions.One promotes spiritual growth the other stifles it.

[debbym]

Quote:

I’ve had to learn, there are some things I’ll never understand about God, the Bible, and Christians.

I’m now challenging myself to mature my faith in an imperfect situation. I am loving God in the confusion. Going to church is not about getting what I want or hearing what I agree with. God uses committed, honest people to make church what it needs to be: a haven of healing and hope.

We do it imperfectly, but we are the ones with a chance to get it somewhat right. That means I attend church.

Have you ever felt uncomfortable in church? Did you stay or leave?

When my depression and ptsd was active, i took a hiatus from church. I did try for some period of time to attend, found a forgiving Sabbath school class, and tried to communicate during the class, but i was suffering emotionally and mentally, and could not form any warm mutual relationships. i was somewhat outside the comfort zone of those whose lives were more regulated, and unavailable in ways to be there for myself much less be there to cultivate a social/spiritual relationship. But i knew i needed God and wanted God, and in my daily life i was doing a lot of praying to get through my experience.once a person becomes stigmatized people tend to excuse themselves from being involved with you. i was hoping for more then those in the church could do.

but i did understand this, i had an ex sda neighbor who was failed by her church because they did not know what to do with a deeply hurting person. She was so hurt and angry, and offered to read me sda hate poetry. I did not know what to say to her. I thought it was my role to give tell her something that would fix her pain, but she was outside my range of social life. i could pray for her. so i understood those who could not understand how to relate to me. i really understood. i think it protected me from a lot of pain.

i am learning how to be there, for others, without pushing on them or standing to far away. each person is an individual and can go through a range of comfortable distances or closeness. I want to be transparent so nothing but God's love is felt, and at special times be ready to drop my agenda's and enter into only the agenda of the Lord.

God is teaching me, and i seem to be learning, but i am so slow.

If i did not anticipate meeting with God at church i would not go.

[Neil D]

Note that I mentioned give and take between the person and the god they honour or worship. Deity can be demanding without a doubt. Sometimes that relationship is work, sometimes it is frustrating and sometimes it seems unfair. Your God, my Gods, the other persons Gods, they kind of are all the same that way it seems. But there is a huge difference between the demands of the Gods and the demands of human made, human operated and human controlled religions.One promotes spiritual growth the other stifles it.

Dear MT Cross....I like the way you think.....Deity can be demanding without a doubt...Sometimes, Deity's demands are filtered thru the individual and one has trouble figuring if the demands are from Deity or from the interpretation of Deity's values....Judaism has the best examples of this....Adventism also has this in a modern day context...An honest relationship clears this connundrum away....

[debbym]

Quote:

This is the very thing that makes denominational religions such a bad thing in my opinion. They tell you how things are, how you are supposed to be, act, feel, they tell you what your god expects out of you, and what your rewards if you do all those things properly are. They come with pressure, they come with demands and judgement.

i experience people being this way, but i do not experience God being this way. people in social groups can have an energy that is homogenizing.

God seems to work with me right where i am at and leads me gently to something new he is teaching me. it is never demands from God.

and i can separate the two.

Church can be without God, it is very different when it is God lead.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

Note that I mentioned give and take between the person and the god they honour or worship. Deity can be demanding without a doubt. Sometimes that relationship is work, sometimes it is frustrating and sometimes it seems unfair. Your God, my Gods, the other persons Gods, they kind of are all the same that way it seems. But there is a huge difference between the demands of the Gods and the demands of human made, human operated and human controlled religions.One promotes spiritual growth the other stifles it.

Dear MT Cross....I like the way you think.....Deity can be demanding without a doubt...Sometimes, Deity's demands are filtered thru the individual and one has trouble figuring if the demands are from Deity or from the interpretation of Deity's values....Judaism has the best examples of this....Adventism also has this in a modern day context...An honest relationship clears this connundrum away....

Without a doubt they can be. I think that is the biggest lesson I have learned in the last 5 years, when in doubt - go directly to the source - the deity in question. You will get an answer if you listen, just maybe not the one you want.

Its that filter that I guess I rail against. Any time you put a human filter in there and you trust the word of that filter without doubt, you run a great chance of going down a less than pure path.

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

This is the very thing that makes denominational religions such a bad thing in my opinion. They tell you how things are, how you are supposed to be, act, feel, they tell you what your god expects out of you, and what your rewards if you do all those things properly are. They come with pressure, they come with demands and judgement.

i experience people being this way, but i do not experience God being this way. people in social groups can have an energy that is homogenizing.

God seems to work with me right where i am at and leads me gently to something new he is teaching me. it is never demands from God.

and i can separate the two.

Church can be without God, it is very different when it is God lead.

There is the whole point. Deity works with you where you are at. There may be some pushes and nudges, and they might not be what you want to do, but in the end its likely what you need to do.

Religion is a great way to share ideas with like minded people if done right, but to often it ends up not being that. It ends up being a place where one is told just what mind they need to be like and are given a mold to try and squeeze themselves into.

[LifeHiscost]

I think Church is great !!

Forsooth!!

And BTW, Jesus promised to meet with His children there and I like to meet where He's planning on meeting. Sometimes He speaks through the Sabbath school the loudest, sometimes through the music that's presented, and even sometimes the speaker. Very often the person of His body, just listening or sharing.

"and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"Hebrews 10:24-26 NASB

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

#635710 -

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

#635872 -

All the while you're decrying the negatives of church because of their trying to fit you into a mold, I see you trying to fit them

(the organized body of Christ) into your mold. Or in other words, "What goes around, comes around"

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap."

God cares!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

#635878 -

Ditto to my last post.

God cares!

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

#635872 -

All the while you're decrying the negatives of church because of their trying to fit you into a mold, I see you trying to fit them

(the organized body of Christ) into your mold. Or in other words, "What goes around, comes around"

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap."

God cares!

Not really, if you would actually read everything there rather than just what you want to see, you would see I said that it really does work for some people. Kudo's to them. I also pointed out that this can happen with any religion, not just "The Body of Christ" ones.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

If i did not anticipate meeting with God at church i would not go.

I agree, up to a point. Sometimes it may be that God wishes to go with you to church so He can minister to someone there through you, who won't be ministered to if you don't show up. I know of no biblical injunctions that say I must please everybody there or that everybody there must please me.

"But even if you suffer for doing what is right, God will reward you for it. So don’t worry or be afraid of their threats. Instead, you must worship Christ as Lord of your life. And if someone asks about your Christian hope, always be ready to explain it. But do this in a gentle and respectful way. Keep your conscience clear. Then if people speak against you, they will be ashamed when they see what a good life you live because you belong to Christ."1 Peter 3:14-16 NLT

God cares!

[JoeMo]

This is a very interesting topic. My journey, although similar to MT's in many ways, has led me away from denominationalism and into a direct relationship with God. Yes; I am a member of the SDA denomination; but I don't think SDA's have a monopoly on salvation or truth. I am fortunate to have found a group of like-minded spiritual people that are more interested in a relationship with God and each other than in doctrinal uniformity. I'm fortunate to belong to a spiritual group that celebrates our doctrinal diversity rather than fights against it. I'm blessed to be part of a spiritual group where I feel safe - where I don't mind people knowing about my flaws, weaknesses, and idiosynchracies. We are (for the most part) who we are - flaws and all!

I don't like traditional denominational church. But I sure love our little body of Christ!

God deals with each of us as individuals; where church deals with us as a aggregate. As such, church tends to put God in a well-defined box for that particular denomination. My experience with diety says that whenever we try to put God in a box, He jumps right out to show us that we CAN'T put Him in a box!

It's one of the things I love about CA. For the most part, we celebrate diversity!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

It's one of the things I love about CA. For the most part, we celebrate diversity!

Where do you put this in importance in your "things to attend to", JoeMo.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV

God cares!

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Where do you put this in importance in your "things to attend to", JoeMo.

Sorry LHC, I don't understand your question ...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Where do you put this in importance in your "things to attend to", JoeMo.

Sorry LHC, I don't understand your question ...

Maybe I should rephrase it to say, can we find diversity in human acceptance when the instruction seems to define explicitly

the parameters of the action that should be taken?

Gotta go so won't be back to answer for a while. Hope your Sabbath is a joyous one.

God cares!