Gambling vs Investing

[Igakusei]

And even with your own research department, master's degree, and array of sophisticated computers, it's still pretty difficult to consistently beat the baseline growth rate.

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: Igakusei

I'd say that if investing in the stock market to you is day trading, then you're gambling.

But if you're diversifying your funds and investing intelligently for long-term gains, then it's just being smart with your money. Saving for retirement with a savings account is like burying your talents of silver in the ground.

I just completed a 3 day seminar on online day trading last week. From what I've learned, day trading without training would be the height of foolishness. You would be going against traders in Wall St. who have a large research dept with the most sophisticated computers. Just like in medicine, there are also signs and symptoms that are reflected in the behavior of the price & volume of a traded stock. There are precise rules that one is supposed to follow to make a more likely successful outcome. To learn more about it, I have enrolled in a hands-on course that will take about 8-12 mos to complete.

Even with training at 2 different sources and a mentor guiding me each step, I was taught a hard lesson in trading 18 months ago. All it takes is 1-3 trades going unexpectedly against you - even if you're an "intermediate period" trader - and your account is toast.

Stock trading is not gambling, if one has knowledge of what a good trade is and what it isn't. It isn't the trading that makes markets so volatile - it is the psychology of the investors (large and small), the occasional hiccup from the computers running the market, and the will power of the mega-players to have a certain situation occur (or not occur) when the market predicts the opposite should happen.

It appears that the best tool to have is a software package allowing you to trade electronically on defined buy/sell signals. Even then, one is not immune to market moves against them.

Gerry, I wish you the best in your endeavor there!

[Don777]

Stock market speculation and problem gambling

Without promoting a moral stand on investing in the stock market, I present this information to raise our awareness of problem gambling.

Gambling defined

There are many different ways to gamble, including: Stock market speculation.

A person is gambling whenever he or she takes the chance of losing money or belongings, and when winning or losing is decided mostly by chance.

What Is Problem Gambling?

Problem gambling is not just about the loss of money—but how it can affect the person’s whole life. Gambling is a problem when it:

• interferes with work, school or other activities

• leads to emotional or physical health problems

• causes financial problems

• harms the family or otherrelationships.

Source:

Problem Gambling: A Guide for Financial Counsellors (2004) by Problem Gambling Project staff, with the assistance of the Ontario Association of Credit Counselling Services. Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, Toronto ON. ISBN: 0-88868-494-0

http://www.problemgambling.ca/EN/Documents/2989PG_FinCounsENG.pdf

[Gerr]

Even with training at 2 different sources and a mentor guiding me each step, I was taught a hard lesson in trading 18 months ago. All it takes is 1-3 trades going unexpectedly against you - even if you're an "intermediate period" trader - and your account is toast.

May I ask which organization you trained with?

Were you taught the 10 commandments of trading?

[Gerr]

And even with your own research department, master's degree, and array of sophisticated computers, it's still pretty difficult to consistently beat the baseline growth rate.

It is true that starting out early and diversifying one's portfolio will in the LONG run builds you a nice nest egg. The trouble comes if you reach retirement at a downturn in the stock market and lose 1/3 - 1/2 of the value of your portfolio like a lot of people did in the last two plummets. What I've learned so far is that every trade is supposed to have a built-in stop loss point to minimize losses.

[Narcah]

This Day With God ch 122

15 MR ch 15

Food for thought.

[Gerr]

Chap. 122 - Ellen White’s Investments [bEGIN P.130]

Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. Luke 12:33.

We are all well this morning. Last night, Mr. and Mrs. A called. We had a good visit. The conversation ran on bank stock, how many were getting rich from investing their means. Some also were meeting with loss. Thus losses and gains were discussed by Mr. and Mrs. A and Sister B and C. {TDG 130.1}

"Now," Mrs. A said, "Mrs. White must say something. She must tell us what she thinks. She has not said a word yet." {TDG 130.2}

"Well," said I, slowly, "I have been many years investing in bank stock, and met with no loss. It has yielded me back all the principal and heavy interest." {TDG 130.3}

All looked up with surprise. C smiled. Mr. A asked, "Where have you invested?" {TDG 130.4}

"In heavenly stock. I have been sending my treasure before me into heaven. The owner in this heavenly stock had warned me, ’Lay not up for yourself treasures upon the earth,’ and told me the danger I should incur of great losses; but He had counseled me, ’Lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.’ This investment is certain, and will yield immense profits." {TDG 130.5}

Mrs. A remarked, "And it will pay every day as you go along. You may not have to wait the rise and fall of stock. It is sure returns; no danger of losses." {TDG 130.6}

We then bade them good night, and left them this to think of. Praise the name of the Lord for the evidence we have daily of our treasure being laid up in heaven; precious investment. I want the assurance from day to day that Jesus is mine and I am His.--Letter 20, May 1, 1876. {TDG 130.7}

"Charge them that are rich in this world...that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life" (1 Tim. 6:17-19). Here is a wise and perfectly safe investment; good works are here specified and recommended for our practice, for your practice. Here are profits that are valuable. There will be no danger of a failure here.--Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 693

White, E. G. (1979). This Day with God (129–130). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

Could you please point out where in this reference she says one should not be investing in stocks?

Are you saving for retirement? If so, where is it invested?

ps - I had trouble finding 15 MR 15.

[Ted Oplinger]

Yes, Gerry, you can, but I would send that info via PM rather than posting the organization names within a thread. I would not wish the mention of either to be seen as public advertisement/testimonial for, or testimonial against.

Yes, I was taught the 10 commandments of trading both stocks and options - including the usage of 0.5% - 1% of one's trading account for any given trade, and the usage of the stop-loss. Unfortunately, what I meant about the trade going against you means the stock unexpectedly and severely gapping up/down due to factors not publicly known. In those cases, your stop-loss is not going to be of use. It only took 4 of those trades during a volatile month to drop my account below the limit required for day-trading.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

The only one I can count on is God and he has kept us afloat

"Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be."Matthew 6:21 NLT

"And now the prize awaits me—the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return. And the prize is not just for me but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing."2 Timothy 4:8 NLT

God cares!

[Gerr]

Are you saving or did you save for retirement? Or from the scripture you quoted, do you just say I'll give it all to the cause and let God provide for me when I retire?