What does ungodly look like?

[Gail]

?

I am reading my way though Isaiah presently, and of course he warns the Israelites about their wickedness and the impending retribution that will come from Him via the Assyrians and then the Babylonians.

Tell me, what would their "ungodly" look like? Is our world there yet?

[thx4mercy]

?

Is our world there yet?

The worldly world or the Adventist world? I would say that either one have probably already surpassed the ungodly Israelites.

[Woody]

From what I understand - we are suppose to reach some type of good spiritual state that would 'allow' Jesus to come. So - I have to assume we are getting better rather than worse.

[Gordon1]

From what I understand - we are suppose to reach some type of good spiritual state that would 'allow' Jesus to come. So - I have to assume we are getting better rather than worse.

Or someone else is getting better (i.e. getting prepared).

That might not be us.

[Gordon1]

Those trapped in Jerusalem during the siege of 70 AD thought they were prepared.

But they ate their own young before perishing themselves.

[olger]

[Gail]

Those trapped in Jerusalem during the siege of 70 AD thought they were prepared.

But they ate their own young before perishing themselves.

I am just reading about that now in Josephus. You think that the people of today are bad? Try reading about the dynamics of that situation!

What precipitated the Romans coming in were insurrections by Jews themselves. Bands of robbers, real criminals, joined by zealots, took over the temple in Jerusalem, plus towns through Galilee and the Masada. The ones in Jerusalem killed the rightful members of the priesthood elite and set up their own priesthood of who knows who.

These were cruel, bloodthirsty criminals who slew anyone. They especially liked rich people because of the plunder they could gain for themselves.

They preyed upon those Jews who were for peace. If anyone tried to escape the cities which were occupied, to seek help from the Romans, they would be slain.

Once the Romans came to reclaim the cities, again, thousands would end up being killed.

[Gail]

Vespasian reclaimed all of Galilee, and then before he could head over to Jerusalem, Nero died and there was dissension as to who should take over the name of Caesar. A couple of upstarts filled the role for a few months, but the armies were really supportive of Vespasian. They persuaded him to go to Rome to become Caesar. After he settled things in Egypt (got support there) he put his son Titus in charge of the Jerusalem war and headed off for Rome.

At one point the wicked Jews stole from the aristocratic women, took their clothes, their jewelry and their cosmetics, WORE THEM, and all made up like women went on a killing spree.

This is the setup for the final sacking of Jerusalem. The Jews who desired no war at all were trapped. While before, that window of opportunity to escape that the Christians took advantage of was open, it is at this time closed. All they could do is wait out the destruction and death. And although I'm not quite in the book where Titus reaches Jerusalem, I know what will happen.

I think we in our modern time still have a ways to go before we get THAT bad.

[Gibs]

Gail,

I believe in a lot of locals that it will bust out almost over night.

We definitely are seeing evil speeding up now at an alarming rate and not only here in our country.

It is bad especially along our southern border here and it's really been war going on with many outlaw gangs have more firepower than most Sheriff and Police departments.

[CoAspen]

It's called 'spamming" a thread....very sad.

[M. T. Cross]

What does ungodly look like?

I think people get to wrapped up in the details of that question.

Go look in the mirror. Look at your life. Look at your priorities. Look at what pleases you and what stresses you. I would be willing to wager that 90% of all of that is ungodly.

Why?

Because we are not Gods. Our minds don't work that way. We get too wrapped up in the details, to wrapped up in theology, to wrapped in politics, and too wrapped up in our own ego. We forget to exist, to flow, to live and experience. We talk when we should listen, we sit still when we should dance. We lock out the wild and light up the darkness when we should explore and experience both. We are as far from godly as anything there is.

So its not a matter of the righteous of the wicked, of the sinners and the saints. Its a matter of each one of us ignoring our potential, our talents and this incredible gift of life.

[CoAspen]

[JoeMo]

Twice Paul gives us a glimpse of what ungodly looks like. First in Tim.3:1-5 he says:

"But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—having a form of godliness but denying its power."

Then, In Gal.5:16-21 he says:

"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Continuing in Galatians 5, Paul contrasts ungodliness with godliness:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit." (vs 22-25)

I think we are seeing a polarization between godliness and ungodliness in the word right now. IMO many Christians are "awakening" due to the outpouring of God's Spirit. Miracles and other divine manifestations are on the rise worldwide and self-directed ministries are springing up in secluded and isolated corners of the planet. Just as EGW predicted, the backlash against the newly awakened spirit of mission and evangelism, is taking the form of rebellion and persecution against the saints.

But, just as darkness never prevails in the presence of light, evil will never prevail in the presence of Godliness. We may be seeing a temporary "last hurrah" resurgence of evil in the world, but if one is to believe the story, good will eventually triumph over evil for all eternity; and all who believe and desire to be there will literally live happily ever after in the Kingdom of Heaven.

[joeb]

?

I am reading my way though Isaiah presently, and of course he warns the Israelites about their wickedness and the impending retribution that will come from Him via the Assyrians and then the Babylonians.

Tell me, what would their "ungodly" look like? Is our world there yet?

Gail,

In one of your other posts you talk about the cruelty of the Jews just before the Romans came in and re-took Jerusalem. How is their cruelty any different than what we see from modern day terrorists? How is their robbery and dressing up as women any different than the constant deceit, illegal theft, legalized theft, and the multiple sexual perversions we see today that are more politically correct than saying what God requires of us?

I worked in a service industry for 20 years and I had a terrible time finding an honest employer. They all stole from their customers and/or their employees in one way or another. From what I've seen from every service industry that's the norm in all of them. It's "buyer beware", and if the customers don't have the technical ability to recognize when they're being fed a line of deceit, well, they get ripped off. It happens every day. It's standard business procedure, and has been for several decades.

I had to change jobs quite a few times because I wouldn't "go with the flow" and steal from people. It's a very rare service business that's honest.

Why give my experience? Because it's an accurate mirror of our society. It's everywhere you look, but we're so used to it we really don't think about it. It's the norm to us, and that says our world is very ungodly.

[Gail]

Wow- perhaps the day IS here!!

Great input, all!

[M. T. Cross]

I had more thoughts on this, but I put them in my blog, so......

http://findingtheowl.wordpress.com/2013/06/24/ungodly/

[JoeMo]

I just read your blog, and it was quite stimulating. It struck a chord deep withing me; and I must think about it some before responding.

Just a thought - you identify yourself as a pagan (and I get that); yet there is so much of what I see as spiritual Christian thought in your posts and blogs. If you were to throw out the denominational and cultural propoganda that you were subjected to as a child and youth; and read the Bible with no preconception of who God/Jesus is, would you feel the same towards the Judeo-Christian deities? I ask this not as a challenge. In my experience, when I conscientiously rejected everything that was hammered into my head as a Catholic and an SDA and read the Bible as it applied to me (with input from the Spirit)rather than as a source of denominational proof-texts, I got a totally different view of God. Some things that religion told me was ungodly really was godly; and vice-versa. When I started investing in a love/trust relationship with the supernatural rather than a performance-based relationship, I truly saw the difference between spirituality and religiosity.

You also seem to be pursuing a trust/love relationship with your deities as opposed to a rules-based one. I commend you. From that perspective, we are on a similar path.

Blessings to you, MT

[Planey]

On the other hand, apropos the question in the OP.

I reckon I know what ungodly looks like.

My house contains several mirrors, you see.

Graeme

[debbym]

Quote:

There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves

Paul and the early Christians all looked for jesus appearing, they all saw themselves living in the last days.

everything that described those living in the last days is what humanity has always been and will always be in the human nature without divine grace living in the heart.

Quote:

"So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. The acts of the flesh are obvious:

These are described in the present tense.

I hear often people are pointing to the wickedness of the world to show the end of the world, but... we will never become as wicked as the wickedness of the pre-flood population, because our lives are cut short maybe 70 to 90% shorter.

the condition of people that points to the return of Christ is the condition of people filled with Christs character. whenever someone starts living by the power of the Resurrection there is going to be a growing contrast between the character of Christ in them and the character of those who do not know Him.

this will never fail to bring the attack of the evil one. He is the enemy of Christ and he fully recognizes when his enemy appears in this world he claims as his own. It is ours to claim our lives for Christ and our loved ones and this very planet as Christs.

Jesus in the Garden asks his sleeping disciples to pray with him, the hour of darkness was coming on. Jesus stirs us finds us so , and asks us to pray with him today, the hour of darkness is stealing upon is, we must respond and grasp onto the promises and the Spirit and pray.

when the enemy makes his march on Christ in the person of His Children i want to be found standing in Jesus and walking through it just as He did, in calm, in understanding, and power to show God's character under every circumstance and suffering. it is as we show forth the praises of His glory that the contrast is seen.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

I reckon I know what ungodly looks like.

My house contains several mirrors, you see.

Hey Planey,

Just a little push-back on your post. Mirrors do not reveal who you are in God's eyes. He looks at you and sees something totally different than what you see. You look into a mirror and see your history; and satan points out to you all the things that make you unworthy. God looks at you and sees you destiny as His son - sinless, holy, and full of glory.

Quote:

And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. (Rom. 5:5-7)

If you are seeing "ungodly", that is good! Christ died just for you (and me)! If you see yourself as ungodly, rejoice! Jesus died just for you!

[joeb]

I hear often people are pointing to the wickedness of the world to show the end of the world, but... we will never become as wicked as the wickedness of the pre-flood population, because our lives are cut short maybe 70 to 90% shorter.

I'm not so sure of this. We are much more degraded from the image of God than they were. We have the accumulated effects of thousands of more years of sin than they did.

[Gibs]

Notice here of what EGW saw of her day and the increase of inventions to help men and women both to sin to no end. Many inventions since her time for all the sinful gratifications that evil dreamers with the help of Satan could invent.

"Society at the present time is corrupt, as it was in the days of Noah. To the long-lived antediluvian race, only a step from paradise, God gave rich gifts, and they possessed a strength of body and mind of which men now have but a faint idea; but they used his bounties, and the strength and skill he gave them, for selfish purposes, to minister to unlawful appetites, and to gratify pride. They expelled God from their thoughts; they despised his law; trampled his standard of character in the dust. They reveled in sinful pleasure, corrupting their ways before God, and corrupting one another. Violence and crime filled the earth. Neither the marriage relation nor the rights of property were respected; and the cries of the oppressed entered into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. By beholding evil, men became changed into its image, until God could bear with their wickedness no longer, and they were swept away by the flood. {SpTEd 43.3}

The youth educated in large cities are surrounded by influences similar to those that prevailed before the flood. The same principles of disregard for God and his law; the same love of pleasure of selfish gratification, and of pride and vanity are at work at the present time. The world is given up to pleasure; immorality prevails; the rights of the weak and helpless are disregarded; and, the world over, the large cities are fast becoming hotbeds of iniquity. {SpTEd 44.1}

The love of pleasure is one of the most dangerous, because it is one of the most subtle, of the many temptations that assail the children and youth in the cities. Holidays are numerous; games and horse-racing draw thousands, and the whirl of excitement and pleasure attracts them away from the sober duties of life. Money that should have been saved for better uses--in many cases the scanty earnings of the poor--is frittered away for amusements. {SpTEd 44.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.