Christian Gay-conversion group closes its doors

[Gail]

Here's an interesting development. A Christian group whose ministry was to convert gays to straightness has folded, issuing an apology to those who they hurt along the way:

Christian gay-conversion group closes

[phkrause]

Yes that was very interesting. I wonder what type of proceedures they did?

[olger]

God is still in the business of delivering people from moral failure. Saw it happen last night- praise Him.

oG

[Neil D]

Here's an interesting development. A Christian group whose ministry was to convert gays to straightness has folded, issuing an apology to those who they hurt along the way

Wonder how many success stories they have??? And why they closed.....??

[Liz]

They probably didn't have to many success stories, which is why they closed. Just leaving a lot of hurt individuals in their wake.

[Kevin H]

How many other sins is it so difficult and frequently harmful to have victory over? Does God expect us to have it this difficult? Is the Holy Spirit really this lazy on this one topic? Or are we misreading and misapplying and taking out of the Biblical context our proof texts on this topic? Is this a step in the Holy Spirit encouraging us to quit being so smug and to actually study the Bible deeper?

[olger]

They probably didn't have to many success stories, which is why they closed. Just leaving a lot of hurt individuals in their wake.

This is an uninformed assumption.

Why look for the worst?

"I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength.."

"To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy. To the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen" (Jude 24).

rejoice always,

`G

[Liz]

This is an uninformed assumption.

Why look for the worst?

Because they apologized and then closed. If they were doing such a great work and had tons of success stories then why apologize? Why close?

It may be uninformed, but I'm going by the article that was posted.

[Gail]

Yes, other than the bit about having the client sit on the counsellor's lap we don't have much to go on. But just that one technique had me puzzling...

It begs the question, What exactly was the apology for? For hurting gays... Well, that is great that they have repented of something. It's rather vague as to what that something is.

[olger]

True Gail.

The sitting on lap is puzzling and inappropriate. Perhaps it was their attempt to help the counselee resolve childhood issues - odd.

rejoice always,

g

[olger]

I understand.

[joeb]

Yes, other than the bit about having the client sit on the counsellor's lap we don't have much to go on. But just that one technique had me puzzling...

It begs the question, What exactly was the apology for? For hurting gays... Well, that is great that they have repented of something. It's rather vague as to what that something is.

Using very questionable methods such as this is a very good reason for the failure of the mission. It sounds like a CINO operation.

[Gail]

What is CINO?

[M. T. Cross]

How many other sins is it so difficult and frequently harmful to have victory over? Does God expect us to have it this difficult? Is the Holy Spirit really this lazy on this one topic? Or are we misreading and misapplying and taking out of the Biblical context our proof texts on this topic? Is this a step in the Holy Spirit encouraging us to quit being so smug and to actually study the Bible deeper?

Those may be some of the most honest questions I have ever heard a Christian ask.

[olger]

How many other sins is it so difficult and frequently harmful to have victory over? Does God expect us to have it this difficult? Is the Holy Spirit really this lazy on this one topic? Or are we misreading and misapplying and taking out of the Biblical context our proof texts on this topic? Is this a step in the Holy Spirit encouraging us to quit being so smug and to actually study the Bible deeper?

What's your point?

[Planey]

Perhaps Christian In Name Only?

Not sure.

Graeme

[Kevin H]

Yes, other than the bit about having the client sit on the counsellor's lap we don't have much to go on. But just that one technique had me puzzling...

It begs the question, What exactly was the apology for? For hurting gays... Well, that is great that they have repented of something. It's rather vague as to what that something is.

If I recall correctly, the article said that some change ministries have the sitting on the lap to resolve issues between the person and their father, but I believe it said that Exodus did not use this method.

[pindoc]

Exodus did have weekly therapy groups. The men were expected to share how many times they had masturbated, how many times they had thought about men "that way" - that kind of stuff. If you refused, they considered you obstinate and incurable.

Hm, sitting around sharing masturbation numbers and fantasies. Wow, that sure sounds like a means to cure.

John Paulk, Exodus' founder, left the organization and renounced the legitimacy and functionality of reparative therapy just a few months ago.

His soon to be ex wife still holds true to the Cause, though I cannot recall the name of her organization. But remember, his wife NEVER claimed to be homosexual at all. She was bisexual. That covers a huge gamut of orientation, from mostly heterosexual to mostly homosexual. She may be close enough to straight to happy the way she is, as long as she finds the right man to re-marry - theoretically... In reality, she picked a man to marry who did not, over the course of their marriage, consistently "want" her. So she might or might not have that strong an attraction to men.

The lap sitting stuff is nothing. At Quest Center, which our own church endorsed for so long, the "cured" head honcho would have "prayer sessions" during which he would diddle their boy bits. Yep, that was another means to a cure all right. And our church leaders were so desperate for at the the appearance of the embodiment of a cure that they just let it go on. It is not as if they just learned this dude was raping and molesting the clients and the place was closed the next day. No way.

I still question why my fellow Christians think that God would insist that "these people" have to be cured at all? Jesus never mentioned gays. Paul never talked about gays. NO he did not - Paul had NO concept of GLBTI folks with any concept of living their lives with a primary partner. He knew of homosexual behavior with the likes of temple prostitutes. Um, BIG difference, ya think? Monogamous Christian household, promiscuity with boys in the temple? Maybe, eh?

Over 450 species of mammals have documented histories of homosexual behavior, from grizzly bears to snow geese and Emperor penguins. This is not at all just a human issue. Really, this is an issue I never recall agreeing with my own about.

Never.

[Gail]

Nice to see you on, Pindoc! It's been awhile :)

[Gregory Matthews]

A fundamental issue is: Is one homosexual because of behavior, or because of gender orientation?

Behavior can be changed.

There is no evidence to support the idea that gender orientation can be changed.

NOTE: I support the gender orientation idea.

[olger]

Gender orientation is becoming outdated by now Greg. The modern thought line is gender fluidity. This makes subconscious sacred. For instance, a person can be a 6'4" man with hair all over his body and say "I am a woman" and that becomes a sacred viewpoint.

I figured you would support the idea that God makes people homosexual.

Gender cannot be changed, any more than one's ethnicity can be changed. BOTH are sacred.

rejoice always,

`G

[Kevin H]

Saw this pasted on Facebook and thought you would find it useful here:

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2013/06/no-tears-for-exodus

[Tom Wetmore]

Thanks Kevin. That was a helpful perspective.

[Tom Wetmore]

Gender orientation is becoming outdated by now Greg. The modern thought line is gender fluidity. This makes subconscious sacred. For instance, a person can be a 6'4" man with hair all over his body and say "I am a woman" and that becomes a sacred viewpoint...

"Outdated" by whom? Exactly whose theory is this?

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

Gender orientation is becoming outdated by now Greg. The modern thought line is gender fluidity. This makes subconscious sacred. For instance, a person can be a 6'4" man with hair all over his body and say "I am a woman" and that becomes a sacred viewpoint...

"Outdated" by whom? Exactly whose theory is this?

This is the current trend Tom. Society is moving towards "gender fluidity" as the new sexual paradigm. In a few years, it will become the new normal. Look for it, and have a great Sabbath.

`G