Pat Robertson Assassination Call

[Jeannieb43]

"Three letters spell the reason Pat Robertson called for the assassination of Venezuela's president. Those three letters are: O - I - L."

That was the ABC Radio News' lead item just now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/23/politi...artner=homepage

...interesting, that Pat Robertson feels it's moral, and legal, and appropriate to assassinate the Venezuelan president just to keep the oil supplies flowing to the U.S.

[aldona]

Now, what would be the reaction if an Islamic religious leader stood up and said that the leader of some nation that the US likes should be assassinated?

Oh, I forgot...there are two sets of rules. One for "the good guys" and one for "the bad guys."

Another nail in the coffin for the "separation of church and state."

aldona

[Dr. Shane]

I am sure that if Venezuela wasn't one of our major providers for oil this wouldn't be such an issue. There certainly are other dictators more deserving of assasination. However oil is a legitimate reason to go to war. Perhaps not in this case, but generally speaking, in some cases oil could be a legitimate reason for war. For centuries wars were fought over land which is still a precious commodity. Today the world's most valuable commodity is oil. It fuels every ecnonomy in every part of the world. Without it we couldn't use these computers. Goods couldn't get to the market. It doesn't just affect the price of gas. It affects the price of everything.

Ossama bin Laden wants the price of a barrel of oil to be at $300. At that price we wouldn't be able to ship our food from the feild to the market. Airplanes run on petrolium products. Trains run on petrolium products. Ships run on petrolium products. Trucks run on petrolium products. Get the picture? Oil at $300 a barrel will turn America and the west into a poverty striken nations. No mystery why Osama wants the price that high.

[Dr. Shane]

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Oh, I forgot...there are two sets of rules.

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I don't see two sets of rules. I see a lot of outrage over Rev. Pat Robertson's remarks. I see the White House distancing themselves from Rev. Robertson. I kind of like Pat Robertson because he makes the rest of us Christians look so reasonable <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Neil D]

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I am sure that if Venezuela wasn't one of our major providers for oil this wouldn't be such an issue. There certainly are other dictators more deserving of assasination. However oil is a legitimate reason to go to war. Perhaps not in this case, but generally speaking, in some cases oil could be a legitimate reason for war. For centuries wars were fought over land which is still a precious commodity. Today the world's most valuable commodity is oil. It fuels every ecnonomy in every part of the world. Without it we couldn't use these computers. Goods couldn't get to the market. It doesn't just affect the price of gas. It affects the price of everything.

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What kind of reasoning is this???? You have just legitamized the reasoning for Japan's expansion of it's empire that eventually lead to the bombing of Pearl Habor!

[Dr. Shane]

Perhaps my wording was not quite right. I do not justify any wars of aggression. However many wars have been fought over colonial land like the Spanish-American war. The US went to war with Spain over territories like Puerto Rico, Cuba and the Philipians. I am not saying that was right or wrong. My point is that nations have long fought over land and oil is just as legitimate today as land was 100 years ago.

Fact is oil at $300/barrel would destroy the western world and become an issue of survival. Some acutally heat their homes with fuel oil! Western nations will take up arms to make sure that doesn't happen if they have to.

[Neil D]

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I am not saying that was right or wrong. My point is that nations have long fought over land and oil is just as legitimate today as land was 100 years ago.

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"Just as legitimate today as land was 100 years ago"....Still legitamizing Japan's rising sun empire, I see.

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Fact is oil at $300/barrel would destroy the western world and become an issue of survival. Some acutally heat their homes with fuel oil! Western nations will take up arms to make sure that doesn't happen if they have to.

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Yes, Saddam wanted Kuwait's oil and wanted to play a significate part of the oil industry. Yes, the US felt that it was a threat to the US and Europe's ecomomy. And US had interest's that needed that oil. For the US ecomomy, we needed those polocies that J. Carter wanted to impliment regarding getting the US off of foriegn oil back in 77. If the US had at that time, implimented alternative fuels, we would not see the current problem we are having now. And out ecomomy would be drastically different and robust than what it currently is.

[Jeannieb43]

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Neil D said:

For the US ecomomy, we needed those polocies that J. Carter wanted to impliment regarding getting the US off of foriegn oil back in 77. If the US had at that time, implimented alternative fuels, we would not see the current problem we are having now. And out ecomomy would be drastically different and robust than what it currently is.

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And we have the knowledge and capability right now to produce hydrogen-powered automobiles. But we're not doing it.

[Neil D]

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And we have the knowledge and capability right now to produce hydrogen-powered automobiles. But we're not doing it.

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Jean, I am going to ask the question, but I already know the answer, and I want you to provide the answer because I know that you know it as well. It is the age old which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Why don't we see more hydrogen powered cars and homes? What is the reason for not providing these products?

[Clio]

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Shane said:

There certainly are other dictators more deserving of assasination. However oil is a legitimate reason to go to war.

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<img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/sad25.gif" alt="" />

No leader of any country is deserving of any of us passing judgement regarding their deserving assassination. Oil is NEVER a reason to go to war. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/icon_smile_sick.gif" alt="" />

Each individual is a child of Abba, for whom True Jesus shed His Blood. His incomparably precious Blood, worth so very much more than $300 a barrel. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In these times those statements are not ours to make. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/icon_smile_sick.gif" alt="" />

Clio climbing up on -----> <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/soapbox.gif" alt="" />

Time is very very short. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The oil issue must occur in order that economic sanctions at the individual level, enforced by the military/police forces can be implemented in accordance to Revelation prophecy. It is occurring right before our eyes, with the deadline for mandatory registration set for May 2008 and signed into law by G.W. Bush in July of 2005.

As of that date, without the "Real ID" you will not be able to have a bank account, pay taxes, receive Social Security, receive disability, Medicare or Medicaid, reserve a camping spot in a state or federal campground, get hunting or fishing licenses, shop for food or anything else you must pay a sales tax on, renew or obtain a driver's license or any other form of license including business licenses, receive medical care, purchase a home, have utilities turned on, or travel.

We need to be focusing on True Jesus, and heeding His advice. Not ruminating on who deserves assassination. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/icon_smile_sick.gif" alt="" />

Clio

[Dr. Shane]

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Still legitamizing Japan's rising sun empire, I see.

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Obviously I lack the communication skills to explain my position. I can be clear about this: I in no way support wars of aggression.

Hydrogen cars do offer promise and the Bush Administration is putting a lot of money into that. The Postal Service already is planning to switch to hydrogen vechicles which will put a nation-wide infrastructure together in order to supply the fuel for private cars.

However we must not forget that petrolium is used in order to get hydrogen into a usable state for fuel. So even with hydrogen we will still need crude oil.

Think of oil like food. Without oil we have no food. Oil is not only used to get our food from the feild to the market, it is used to plant and harvest our food. So if another nation threatens to cut off our food supply, is that a reason for war? $300/barrel for oil would cut off our ability to plant, harvest and transport food to the market at an affordable price for the masses.

[Clio]

*sighs*

Yes Shane. But in the face of Jesus impending return, why would we care? It has to happen. And just because it is happening now is no reason to call for another child of Abba's assassination.

So murder is justifiable to support our way of life? That's what assassination is, murder... there's no way to make it anything else.

Besides... unless you plan on accepting RealID (which by the way will be the instrument of implementation of the MoB), by May of 2008 it will be moot. Do you advocate assassination to preserve convenience for slightly less than 3 years?

Clio

[Dr. Shane]

I am not advocating assasination and Rev. Pat Robertson apoligized today for the comment. I am stating that in some circumstances war may be justified for oil. Since we need oil in order to eat it becomes an issue of survival. Eating food is a lifestyle choice most humans do not want to give up.

[cricket]

What if we all started utilizing our backyards and parks and picnic areas to grow food that we need? There is more than enough land for us to grow the food we need right in our own communities.

If we would be aggressive in our production of food, we wouldn't need to be "aggressive" in a war for oil.

And think, with all the money we'd save by growing our own food, one spouse could stay home again. Thus, opening up the job market to the spouses in need of employment. We could save even more money then, by not having to drive as far. We could build better communities and develop closer bonds with our neighbors. We might even find a church close enough to walk to if we evangelize as we should.

That's it! Oil is the death of us. If we continue on as we do, oil will assuredly be the death of us all. Let us not fight to use oil; let us not fight for lower prices. Let us fight, rather the good fight and teach farming skills.

[]http://www.trains.com/community/forum/icons/smilies/icon_smile_2cents.gif[/]

[Dr. Shane]

Consider this, just how utterly dependant on oil we, and the rest of the world, are:

We can't grow food in our own back yards unless we can buy seeds. How are seeds produced? Oil. How are seeds brought to the market for us to buy? Oil. How about all our garden tools? Brought to the market by oil. Built with materials brought to factories by oil. And what about the folks that live in apartments? Where can they grow food?

We do need to become less dependant on oil - but so does the whole world! If the world lasts long enough it will need to develope ways to make energy from renuable sources like soy and corn. The Lord may well come before than. If not, it will certainly be many years future.

[Ron Lambert]

One Christian leader in the USA calls for "taking out" certain troublesome foreign leaders, and there is a firestorm of criticism. Compare that to the many Islamic leaders around the world who call for terrorist assassinations of random people in the name of Jihad, and the tepid, equivocating criticism of this from other Islamic leaders, when they even comment on it at all.

[Neil D]

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We can't grow food in our own back yards unless we can buy seeds. How are seeds produced? Oil. How are seeds brought to the market for us to buy? Oil. How about all our garden tools? Brought to the market by oil. Built with materials brought to factories by oil. And what about the folks that live in apartments? Where can they grow food?

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Hmmmmm....Amish currently do it, that is, bring in crops from the fields and sell them without using machinery at all. And I wonder how people during the Civil War era did it?

Yeah, sure, we used oil now, but there are other techologies that are being used, ie Geothermal to create hydrogen and hydrogen for cars. You need to see the PBS documentary with Iceland. They are getting set up for prime exporters of this very way of life in the next 5-10 years. I think that it can come sooner, if the US pushes it for this techology to flurish with larger credits and such. GM has the prototype down and ready to use. Ford is looking at solid hydrogen [which has some potential uses] and has current hybrids of hydrogen and electric ready to go as well.

[Neil D]

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One Christian leader in the USA calls for "taking out" certain troublesome foreign leaders, and there is a firestorm of criticism.

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First off, Venezuela does NOT have the best of relationships with the US. Second, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has claimed for a couple of years that the US is seeking his life. 3] A Christian leader who espouses to love Jesus and yet promotes the breaking of commandments to get our nations way, seem very hypocritical and shallow to many other people, not just me.

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Compare that to the many Islamic leaders around the world who call for terrorist assassinations of random people in the name of Jihad, and the tepid, equivocating criticism of this from other Islamic leaders, when they even comment on it at all.

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Somehow, a Jihad is expected occassionally from the religion of Islam. It is NOT expected from Christianity. [tic] Do you think that that might be the reason for everyone's concern over this? [/TIC]

[Bravus]

It'd be nice to hear prominent Christian voices that were advocating active, energetic research and development of solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, fusion, biomass, biofuel and a wide range of other alternatives to oil. That and efficiency and more moderate lifestyles. I believe someone has said that a 1 MPG increase in car efficiency would get rid of the need for drilling in the Arctic Refuge and something like a 4 MPG increase would make the US completely independent of Middle Eastern oil. It seems to me to be part of stewardship, a very biblical principal, and in some ways to be able to be considered independently from one's views on global warming. America (and by extension Canada, Australia and the other countries we're concerned with) would just be so much better off from a political, economic and security perspective if they could become energy self-sufficient, but the political will just doesn't seem to be there, at least not yet.

[Ron Lambert]

Buy hybrid gas-electric cars. Some of them give as good as 60 mpg in city driving, and still offer adequate performance. More and more of them are becoming available. There are even a few hybrid SUVs out there.

[Neil D]

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There are even a few hybrid SUVs out there.

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Much to my consternation, Ron, they only get like 30 mpg. An improvement of what...7-10 mpg? [i don't own a SUV, although I would like one] Compared to my sm. GMC truck, that is an improvement of 7 mph [i get 23 mpg with it ]So, why change vehicles?

Now, if you are talking about trading in my truck for a prius....I would definately concider it....

[Bravus]

It'll be nice once the hybrids are cheap enough that it becomes worthwhile. My buddy has just bought a 2 litre sedan because it was costing him way too much to drive his truck to work every day. Neil, see also the stats I quoted above: 4 mpg on average across all vehicles would make the US energy independent. 7 is not insignificant!

[Dr. Shane]

There needs to be a tax incentive to buy hybrid cars and/or SUVs. If the government were to offer a $4K tax credit to everyone that bought a hybrid car they would start selling like hotcakes. Which would mean within five years they would be all over the used car market as well.

This is the thing with the tax credit. A person will finance their car for 3-5 years. So they buy a hybrid for $20K with a downpayment. When they file taxes they will get $4K back in one lump sum.

Hybrid cars are selling around $20K and boasting of gas milage above 50 mpg.

Hybrid SUVs are selling between $25K - $30K and boasting of gas milage above 30 mpg.

Hybrid pickups have the farthest to go in developement (IMO). Costing between $35K - $40K they are only delivering, at best, 21 mpg. You can get that with a small, non-hybrid, compact pickup which is all most pickup drivers need.

Dodge, Chrysler and Pontiac all have minivans that get over 25 mpg and some are captable for >>> E85 fuel <<<

The Toyota Tacoma 4 cyl. pick-up gets 21 mpg (city) and 27 mpg (hiway) and it has a price tag as low as $13K.

The Ford Ranger 4 cyl boasts up to 29 mpg on the highway and has a price tag around $15K

The Mazda compact pickup 4 cyl also boasts of 29 mpg on the highway with a price tag around $15K

Chevolet's new compact 4 cyl boasts of 27 mpg with a $15K price tag.

So all these compacts are delivering more mpg than the hybrid pickups on the market. Even the compacts 6 cylinder options are performing as well as the hybrids.

[Dr. Shane]

Back to our good old brother in Christ, Pat Robertson...

CIA, Military Men Agree with Pat Robertson

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While televangelist Pat Robertson has apologized for suggesting that Venezuelan strongman Hugo Chavez be assassinated, a former military man and an ex-CIA operative have stepped forward to say that his concerns about Chavez aren't exactly unwarranted.

"Chavez is a dangerous guy," retired Col. David Hunt told Bill Bennett's "Morning in America" fill-in host Steve Malzberg on Wednesday. "We helped to elect the son of a gun [and] after 9/11 you don't get to threaten us."

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[Bravus]

*cough*blowback*cough* <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />