Down the Rabbit Hole: What's Really at Stake With Domestic Surveillance?

[phkrause]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-j-bell/down-the-rabbit-hole-what_b_3469518.html

[olger]

He couldn't resist a potshot at the Tea party movement, but I thought this sentence was spot on.

"Why chase Snowden to the ends of the earth and threaten him with charges of espionage and treason if his claims boil down to no big deal and things we've known about all along anyway?"

`G

[CoAspen]

Quote:

"Why chase Snowden to the ends of the earth and threaten him with charges of espionage and treason if his claims boil down to no big deal and things we've known about all along anyway?"

Is the author of that statement really Blind? Just because we know that the government spies on others does not mean the same as 'its okay to give away the information learned'. It is a big deal when peoples lives are endangered. People cry for the government to provide peace and safety, yet when they do that, some like the sound of their own voice so well, that they raise a ruckus over the methodology. Can't have it both ways!!!

[LifeHiscost]

Is it not true that when one is in a place like the NSA as a trusted employee, they must sign or at least speak an oath giving reason to believe they can be trusted not to put the U.S. in any kind of awkward position by revealing clandestine activity? It is one of the reasons why people at one time, in the U.S. of A., made a pledge of allegiance in school, a pledge considered, if broken, to be at the least an affront against the country under God's care.

Snowden, if having made an oath, chose not to honor that oath. As such there seems to be reason to declare him a betrayer of the trust that was placed upon his word, and if that oath was made upon a Holy Bible, his allegiance would be no less a betrayel than Judas' turncoat activity against the Son of God.

Now if, after due consideration, Snowden found himself paying heed to this biblical instruction;

"But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men."Acts 5:29 NASB

then God will make sure He, Himself will take care of Snowden's safety, which sometimes has meant being boiled in oil, as was John the apostle's case with miraculous intervention.

God cares!

[olger]

Quote:

"Why chase Snowden to the ends of the earth and threaten him with charges of espionage and treason if his claims boil down to no big deal and things we've known about all along anyway?"

Is the author of that statement really Blind? Just because we know that the government spies on others does not mean the same as 'its okay to give away the information learned'. It is a big deal when peoples lives are endangered. People cry for the government to provide peace and safety, yet when they do that, some like the sound of their own voice so well, that they raise a ruckus over the methodology. Can't have it both ways!!!

The author of that statement is your beloved Ryan Bell, whom you defended on here in early April. We still love you,

`G

[phkrause]

People cry for the government to provide peace and safety, yet when they do that, some like the sound of their own voice so well, that they raise a ruckus over the methodology. Can't have it both ways!!!

Exactly

[olger]

If it's not a crime for Obama and company to COMMIT a crime, why should it be a crime for this guy to REPORT the crime?

`G

[LifeHiscost]

If it's not a crime for Obama and company to COMMIT a crime, why should it be a crime for this guy to REPORT the crime? `G

Because they follow the golden rule according to the world. Those who have the gold, make the rules.

God cares!

[joeb]

Quote:

"Why chase Snowden to the ends of the earth and threaten him with charges of espionage and treason if his claims boil down to no big deal and things we've known about all along anyway?"

Is the author of that statement really Blind? Just because we know that the government spies on others does not mean the same as 'its okay to give away the information learned'. It is a big deal when peoples lives are endangered. People cry for the government to provide peace and safety, yet when they do that, some like the sound of their own voice so well, that they raise a ruckus over the methodology. Can't have it both ways!!!

You mean it's an either/or? The government can protect our rights or our lives?

Seems to me this administration is doing neither.

Ben Franklin was right on the mark when he said those that would sacrifice their liberty for their safety would end up with neither. Looks absolutely prescient to me.

Also seems to me that those complaining about the violation of our constitutional rights around here are not those complaining about our "security".

[bonnie]

Seems to me this administration is doing neither.

Ben Franklin was right on the mark when he said those that would sacrifice their liberty for their safety would end up with neither. Looks absolutely prescient to me.

Also seems to me that those complaining about the violation of our constitutional rights around here are not those complaining about our "security".

Interesting little read 1975 by Frank Church a democrat concerning this topic

SENATOR CHURCH DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WOULD HIT EACH OF US TODAY WHEN HE WARNED AGAINST THE ABYSS

Posted on May 22, 2013 by Richard Johnson

:

According to the Daily Caller, “The White House is close to completing the text of an cybersecurity executive order, continuing its pursuit of expanding executive branch authority over the Internet.” The executive order would serve stated “government needs” after conservatives stopped a bipartisan effort (Senators Lieberman and McCain for example) in Congress to legislate “cybersecurity.” The unspoken and under reported consequences of this high handed and near tyrannical action is government intrusion into free expression on the Internet and to keep detailed records on every facet of each citizens life. The implication clearly is we are all prospective terrorists or enemies of the state.

Government heavy-handedness exists worldwide. China is a notable example of government regulation and censorship. The explanation for the impending executive action is potential terrorist threats against America’s utility grids and networks. But a barn door is being opened that is likely to prove near impossible to close against expanding and frightening government cyber-snooping. The danger of massive government abuse of your privacy has been around a long time. In the Preface of his new best selling thriller, Black List Brad Thor wrote:

On August 17, 1975, Senator Frank Church appeared on NBC’s Meet the Press to discuss the results of his full-scale investigation into America’s burgeoning intelligence capabilities. Senator Church revealed startling information and closed with a dire warning to every citizen of the United States:

[America’s intelligence gathering] capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left. Such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide.

If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology.

I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that [the NSA} and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.

Little did I know my warning was too late. We now know we crossed over into the abyss 35—and more likely 34—years after Senator Church’s warning, not 37. Hundreds American patriots had already found out as they were intimidated by the IRS and up to 16 other U.S. Government agencies. Journalist’s first amendment rights were being trampled. One, Fox News Washington Bureau Chief James Rosen, was being investigated by DOJ—and the FBI for God’s sake—for criminal activity. Let us keep in mind that we call it the abyss because we cannot see through the darkness. What we know today is very likely only the scratch of the scratch of the surface of the damage already done to our country. We must assume the tyrants have worked their agenda far more broadly and deeply than we can imagine.

Should you be compelled to act, I strongly suggest you pray as your first act and commit to stay in prayer until, with His help, we bring the tyrants down and bring ourselves back over from the abyss. Next, be informed about what we face. You can get much of the fundamentals in about 3 hours of documentaries.

[joeb]

It seems to me, and has for quite a while, that the SDA church in its focus on thinking Republicans would be the ones to cause of government to abandan our Constitution has closed its eyes to what the Democrats are capable of doing. We have a Democrat administration and it's trampling on our Constitutional rights on a daily basis, and doing so in a very high-handed and unapologetic manner. We are very close to tyrrany, the complete abandonment of our Constitutional rights, right now, and these are not Republicans in power.

Is not this what Ellen White described as the events of the very end of time, when our government would abandon our Constitution?

[olger]

It seems to me, and has for quite a while, that the SDA church in its focus on thinking Republicans would be the ones to cause of government to abandan our Constitution has closed its eyes to what the Democrats are capable of doing. We have a Democrat administration and it's trampling on our Constitutional rights on a daily basis, and doing so in a very high-handed and unapologetic manner. We are very close to tyrrany, the complete abandonment of our Constitutional rights, right now, and these are not Republicans in power.

Is not this what Ellen White described as the events of the very end of time, when our government would abandon our Constitution?

FORSOOTH

My business partner and I were discussing this very notion today.

`G

[lazarus]

Is not this what Ellen White described as the events of the very end of time, when our government would abandon our Constitution?

While you all are debating which party is doing it, the process continues regardless of who is in power. Did you make a fuss when Habius Corpus was suspended, or when the patriot act was made law? Both parties are different sides of the same coin on this issue.

[joeb]

While you all are debating which party is doing it, the process continues regardless of who is in power. Did you make a fuss when Habius Corpus was suspended, or when the patriot act was made law? Both parties are different sides of the same coin on this issue.

****shakes head in disbelief*****

[Ted Oplinger]

Originally Posted By: joeb

Is not this what Ellen White described as the events of the very end of time, when our government would abandon our Constitution?

While you all are debating which party is doing it, the process continues regardless of who is in power. Did you make a fuss when Habius Corpus was suspended, or when the patriot act was made law? Both parties are different sides of the same coin on this issue.

Just like I don't see you jumping up and down in disagreement with the Obama administration is doing. You can cry all you want about conservatives, but unless you're out there in vehement disagreement with the tyranny now in place, your opposition to what Bush did is but a hollow tantrum.

I absolutely agree with the sentiment that many SDA's - and most of the clergy and denomination staff - have turned a blind eye to the political and religious left in their focusing of their fear of the religious right. In my observations, the taking of our religious liberty worldwide has been further advanced by the left than by any other group.