changed my mind

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Never let it be said that I can't change my mind about an issue!

While I don't think there's any Biblical incentive to ordain women as pastors, I don't think there is anything to justify *not* ordaining women.

Ordination is simply not a Biblical imperative for men OR women to be pastors. It's a manmade construct. As such, it only has importance in the eyes of people - and not in God's eyes.

Women can preach in church, and do. If it's their primary means of lifework, and they are accepted by a congregation, then of course they should be granted the legal documents necessary to be financially and denominationally sound and accepted.

Really want to thank some of the pro and con arguers here. Some, for their relentless determination and forthrightness, and some for their sarcasm and ridicule, which really turned the tide away from my inclination to say, "NO"...

[phkrause]

excellent post Pam

[Tom Wetmore]

[debbym]

I had very mixed feelings about it at first but i am now sure it is really ok in the eyes of God.

and i admit the negativity and ridicule and controlling attitudes of those against it, also opened my eyes. I am surprised we still cannot seem to just have a civil thoughtful discussion without bible thumping and divisive response.

[Green Cochoa]

I had very mixed feelings about it at first but i am now sure it is really ok in the eyes of God.

and i admit the negativity and ridicule and controlling attitudes of those against it, also opened my eyes. I am surprised we still cannot seem to just have a civil thoughtful discussion without bible thumping and divisive response.

Are you quite willing to base your decision upon feelings? Are you truly comfortable with this?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Johann]

Originally Posted By: debbym

I had very mixed feelings about it at first but i am now sure it is really ok in the eyes of God.

and i admit the negativity and ridicule and controlling attitudes of those against it, also opened my eyes. I am surprised we still cannot seem to just have a civil thoughtful discussion without bible thumping and divisive response.

Are you quite willing to base your decision upon feelings? Are you truly comfortable with this?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

How do you define feelings in the term "mixed feelings"? Also considering that debby used it in the past tense?

[Green Cochoa]

How do you define feelings in the term "mixed feelings"? Also considering that debby used it in the past tense?

Johann,

She says she had mixed feelings "at first." This implies her feelings are currently not mixed. My question addresses her current feelings, not those past mixed ones. Usually when someone has "mixed feelings," they are not ready to decide on something yet. But she is stating, basically, that her feelings are no longer mixed and that she has come to a decision--based on her present feelings.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Tom Wetmore]

In common vernacular, to say one "feels"an idea is thus and so, means much the same as one has "figured" it out.

But taking the notion you seem to be alluding to that this issue or any other should not be based on "feelings" or emotions is really very much a serious misconception about human nature and the reality that emotions are very much a part of cognition and thought processes. It is quite naive to think that emotion has no part in any decision, commitment, conviction, belief, or reasoning process. It is very much like the idea that the soul and the body are separate. God created humans to function, mentally, physically and emotionally, and spiritually as a unified being. One cannot be separated from the rest. Problems arise when there is not proper balance amongst them.

And if you think that emotions do not play a part in the reasons behind those against women in ministry you have seriously overlooked an awful lot of emotional commentary expressed on this topic. Let's start with just two of the emotional reactions she already noted, ridicule and negativity. In my experience those against WO are generally just as, if not more, emotional about it. Anger is very often the response. And fear is often the reaction as evidenced by the favorite homophobic hysteria that inevitably invades the discussion.

[Green Cochoa]

It is really good of you gentlemen to attempt to clarify things. I was addressing Debby, though, and would be interested in her response. If she has more than feelings on the issue, and she very well may, I would be interested in hearing how she "has 'figured' it out," as you put it.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[debbym]

Quote:

Are you quite willing to base your decision upon feelings? Are you truly comfortable with this?

my feelings followed my thoughts, and my thoughts followed my feelings just like everyone.

i did not disclose all my thoughts and changes in thinking, i referenced my experience by commenting on my feelings.

i did not say i based my decisions on my feelings, i was just referencing the experience in this manner. it seemed ok to say this at the time, and i am still ok with talking about it this way.

sorry it elicited a judgement on your part that i based my decision on my feelings. this was not my statement.

thank-you for your blessings CoChoa,

blessing to you, have a wonderful day in the Lord.

[debbym]

Quote:

It is really good of you gentlemen to attempt to clarify things. I was addressing Debby, though, and would be interested in her response. If she has more than feelings on the issue, and she very well may, I would be interested in hearing how she "has 'figured' it out," as you put it.

i observed the dialogues going back and forth, and when i did interject my thoughts during the course of the discussions, i noted the responses, and the responses to others.

i do not feel it will be a valuable use of time to repeat these dialogues which would be completely predictable and repetitive. and no one would likely change this views, and no unity would be derived from such conversations repeated.

i am happy to report that i considered each side of the discussion, and thought it through, and questioned each view, and am comfortable with my thinking on it today.

pivotal points to me were, the priesthood of all believers, Christ being the Head of the body and not human beings, we as the body of Christ all serve with a variety of Gifts given by the Holy Spirit, Romans 12.

I have not seen the gifts of the Holy Spirit being represented as gender specific.

i am not commenting further for a repetitive already hashed over dialogue, but to honor your comment in some degree.

thank-you for asking.

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: debbym

I had very mixed feelings about it at first but i am now sure it is really ok in the eyes of God.

and i admit the negativity and ridicule and controlling attitudes of those against it, also opened my eyes. I am surprised we still cannot seem to just have a civil thoughtful discussion without bible thumping and divisive response.

Are you quite willing to base your decision upon feelings? Are you truly comfortable with this?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

First, women often express what they "think" about something by saying that they "feel" that way about it. It's natural for them, and it doesn't mean they base everything on feelings. It's just a manner of expression.

Second, there is a pretty good-sized group of men who do the same. Both the men and women are people who are predominately right-brained.

Then there are the predominately left-brained people who "think" everything through without regard to emotion at all. That in itself is a weakness. It's just as much a weakness as only looking at feelings to judge the right or wrong of an issue.

Both sides have their weaknesses and strengths. Both sides are good at different things in life. God created us that way, so who are we to judge the way the other side processes information?

[hch]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2013 at 3:00 PM, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

 

Never let it be said that I can't change my mind about an issue!

 

While I don't think there's any Biblical incentive to ordain women as pastors, I don't think there is anything to justify *not* ordaining women.

 

Ordination is simply not a Biblical imperative for men OR women to be pastors. It's a manmade construct. As such, it only has importance in the eyes of people - and not in God's eyes.

 

Women can preach in church, and do. If it's their primary means of lifework, and they are accepted by a congregation, then of course they should be granted the legal documents necessary to be financially and denominationally sound and accepted.

 

Really want to thank some of the pro and con arguers here. Some, for their relentless determination and forthrightness, and some for their sarcasm and ridicule, which really turned the tide away from my inclination to say, "NO"...

When WO came to my attention, I never gave it a second thought. I considered it as not worthy of my time.

Then Pastor Ted Wilson urged that  SDA's settle the issue in their own mind, so I gave it a look.

But not reading the pros and cons: looking in the Scripture and Spirit of prophecy to find God's perspective.

IMHO, this issue has been so misrepresented by men that the word of God has been set aside for man's teaching clothed in piety.