Is coffee drinking really a sin?

[Gail]

Maybe it's time for some context?

[Gregory Matthews]

Living in a time when many, to include Christians (perhaps even SDAs?), have not experienced a life changing relationship with Christ, to spend the time and energy that has been spent on this question may cause one to wonder what      some people consider to be really important in a relative way.  E.G.  Is it more important that I not drink coffee than it is for me to have a vibrant relationship with Christ.

 

NOTE:  I do not drink coffee.

[debbym]

A few weeks ago we ordained some deacons and deaconesses. In our preparation meeting one our sharper ordinans noted that Paul says "Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy for money, holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience" (I Timothy 3:8-9).

Jokingly, he observed that as a newly ordained deacon he can still drink, but not much. The Apostle Paul did not go as far as SDA's go. I think it is good that we teach abstinence but we have to be honest and say that this is not what the Bible commands. We are about being true to scripture, right?

Isn't this thread about coffee tho' ?

BTW if drinking coffee is a sin then so is soda. A Sprite can keep you out of heaven.

 

Several high fructose sweetened soda's are more harmful to the health then meat eating.  I remember reading in her diet counsels that excess sugar is more harmful to health then meat eating.  I don't see so much meat at potluck, but i see lots of heavy frosted cakes, and pies and cookies, and often ice cream.

 

What about her comment cheese is unfit for food?  Cheese, or cottage cheese is often a primary ingredient in vegetarian foods.

 

We are talking about health here, not about heaven or hell.  Our works do not get us to heaven, nor do they send us to hell.  It is our relationship to Jesus, faith in Him, and in what He did for us at the Cross.  Knowing Jesus and being free from the power of sin, in increasing measure will impact our behavior, but that behavior will never replace the sacrifice of Jesus.

 

If we reject the Holy Spirit we determine our destiny, regardless of how wonderful our behavior is otherwise.  It is a solemn matter between you and your maker.  

 

Tea, coffee, soda, cheese meat... i don't know how solemn these issues are, but they are health concerns, and can be about habit's that may indeed shorten life. When you are in a diabetic coma from poor health habits, or on the table with a heart attack, or have nerves or headaches, suffering from caffeine addiction, or have teens suffering from adolescent obesity from 6 soda's a day, and cheesy fries, and chips and burgers.... health issues seem to speak for themselves.  God wants everyone to suffer less.

[Sojourner]

No; it was a sin when a certain woman ate a certain fruit.  The Bible documents God specifically explicitly prohibited her from eating the fruit from that particular tree.  If you can show me where coffee-drinking is explicitly (or even implicitly) prohibited in scripture, I will quit drinking it.

 

I find it curious that, with all of the medical journals reporting the benefits of moderate use of coffee and tea that people are still so stuck on what EGW had to say about coffee more than 100 years ago.

 

Hi Joe, I have to disagree with you here. Eve had no capacity to be able to sin because she did not yet have the knowledge of Good and Evil and was not even across what the concept of Sin was unlike the serpant that G-d allowed to decieve her. Sin was committed, yet by the Serpant, not by Eve.

 

Still as an aside if we are made aware that we are not to eat a certain fruit then it is probably best to refuse to eat any type of fruit including tomatoes and probably just focus on a vegetable diet, just in order to be sure that we do not sin by happening to get the same type of fruit that is forbidden for consumption..

[LifeHiscost]

Living in a time when many, to include Christians (perhaps even SDAs?), have not experienced a life changing relationship with Christ, to spend the time and energy that has been spent on this question may cause one to wonder what      some people consider to be really important in a relative way.  E.G.  Is it more important that I not drink coffee than it is for me to have a vibrant relationship with Christ.

 

NOTE:  I do not drink coffee.

The question for me is not which is most important but can I ignore the injunctions of the Word and still have a vibrant relationship with Jesus.

 

31So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Don’t give offense to Jews or Gentiles^f or the church of God. 33I, too, try to please everyone in everything I do. I don’t just do what is best for me; I do what is best for others so that many may be saved....1 Cor 10

 

15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.....John 14

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

 she did not yet have the knowledge of Good and Evil

 

.

That might have some truth in it but this Word tells me she wasn't oblivious she was being disobedient.

 

…16The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."...Gen 2

 

While the commandment was given to man, since the bible says that man and woman are one, it would seem to me Adam gave Eve all the information of warning God had given him. Perhaps Eve's greatest lack was unbelief, which resulted in believing what the serpent told her.

 

4.You surely will not die!...Gen 3

 

Her next greatest mistake was entering into a personal arguement with the serpent and then embellishing on what God had said. "No, not even to touch it."...Gen 3 a common mistake of of many sincerely motivated people, before they recognize this Word.

 

....apart from Me you can do nothing.....John 15

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gerr]

No; it was a sin when a certain woman ate a certain fruit.  The Bible documents God specifically explicitly prohibited her from eating the fruit from that particular tree.  If you can show me where coffee-drinking is explicitly (or even implicitly) prohibited in scripture, I will quit drinking it.

 

I find it curious that, with all of the medical journals reporting the benefits of moderate use of coffee and tea that people are still so stuck on what EGW had to say about coffee more than 100 years ago.

JoeMo, I was referring more to swine which the Bible explicitly mentions.  ESV | ‎Is 66:17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig’s flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the LORD."  It is defined as unclean in Lev 11.  And the command seems very explicit to me.  ESV | ‎2 Co 6:17 Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you,

 

Coffee and tea are not mentioned; and that's why we are debating them.  Should we drink red wine because some benefit is mentioned in medical literature?  For me to choose something that is potentially harmful even though it may have some potential benefits when there are more healthy things is missing the mark.   

[JoeMo]

Coffee and tea are not mentioned; and that's why we are debating them.  Should we drink red wine because some benefit is mentioned in medical literature?  For me to choose something that is potentially harmful even though it may have some potential benefits when there are more healthy things is missing the mark.   

Almost all things - including water and fruit - are harmful in excess.  Drinking a cup or two of coffee daily is not excess IMHO; while drinking a pot or two of coffe might be.  Having a daily glass or two of wine may not be bad for you, but having a bottle or two is definitely bad.  Drinking 8 glasses of water a day is definitely a good habit; drinking 8 gallons a day (for even one day) will likely kill you.  Eating an apple a day is great.  Eating a dozen will cause some urgent gastrointestinal distress.

[Gerr]

Almost all things - including water and fruit - are harmful in excess.  Drinking a cup or two of coffee daily is not excess IMHO; while drinking a pot or two of coffe might be.  Having a daily glass or two of wine may not be bad for you, but having a bottle or two is definitely bad.  Drinking 8 glasses of water a day is definitely a good habit; drinking 8 gallons a day (for even one day) will likely kill you.  Eating an apple a day is great.  Eating a dozen will cause some urgent gastrointestinal distress.

The good, healthy, substances are only harmful when taken in excess.  Those that are suspect can be potentially harmful even in smaller quatities.

[Gail]

Doesn't Scripture say that the kingdom of God is not food or drink? ( have to go look that up)

[Gerr]

Did not our planet get into trouble because someone ate a fruit? Was not our Lord's first wilderness temptation about bread? Did He not also say, "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you?"

[JoeMo]

Gerry says:

"Those that are suspect can be potentially harmful even in smaller quatities."

 

So are you implying that a cup (not a gallon) of coffee is harmful to the point that it's sinful?  I would love to see some modern scientific (not religious) evidence.

[Tom Wetmore]

Doesn't Scripture say that the kingdom of God is not food or drink? ( have to go look that up)

  That would be Romans 14:17 - "For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit"

[Gerr]

Gerry says:

"Those that are suspect can be potentially harmful even in smaller quatities."

 

So are you implying that a cup (not a gallon) of coffee is harmful to the point that it's sinful?  I would love to see some modern scientific (not religious) evidence.

I said potentially harmful.  And for what purpose do you want to drink it?  As I said several pages ago, When I drive long distances, I keep some Coke in the car to keep me alert because driving is soporific for me, even after a good night sleep.  Someone else mentioned that it relieves their migraine.  In fact, there are anti-migraine medications that have caffeine as one of the main ingredients.  Would a drop of alcohol or strychnine do harm to your body?  Most likely not.  The human body is such a wonderful machine that it can handle a lot of abuse and still recover.  How close to the precipice do you want to drive?

[Tom Wetmore]

The indications are that the antioxidant benefits of tea likely trumps any mild downside effects of caffeine.  The antioxidant value is long-term while the caffeine effect is short lived in comparison.  The same would be true of the potential anti cancer impact of various types, diabetes prevention/management, alzheimer risk reduction, etc. of coffee drinking.  For those in high risk for any of these areas, drinking a moderate amount of coffee would seem to be worth it.

 

It has also been long recognized that in attentional disorders that caffeine can work in the same way as Ritalin to control hyperactivity and improve focus.  I have seen that firsthand. I had heard of that possibility and observed it working once when my son was in elementary school.  I was a designated driver on a field trip an hour or two away from school and had the misfortune to having one of his classmates in my group that had missed his dose of Ritalin.   On the return trip he was practically bouncing off the ceiling of the van.  We stopped at one point and the kid ran into the Taco Bell and came out with a large Mountain Dew.  He quickly drank the whole thing.  I was thinking to my self that all that caffeine was the last thing a hyperactive kid needed!  He very quickly started to calm down and and was sound asleep before we got back to the school.  

[JoeMo]

Gerry asks:

"Would a drop of alcohol or strychnine do harm to your body?"

 

I would never purposely take strychnine.  I drink coffee to stay alert and because I like it.

 

This discussion is about coffee; not alcohol or strichnine - no question that those can damage you; even in moderate amounts.   I asked for scientific evidence that a cup of coffe is bad for you.  I  am unaware of anyone ever dying from coffee poisoning.

[Tom Wetmore]

I think we need to recognize the fact that much of what EGW had to say was reflective of the thinking of other health reformers of the latter part of the 19th Century.  It has been shown that there were other sources besides her in that era saying many of the same things she was saying.  It is interesting to note that any form of stimulation was considered harmful to the nervous system, draining the life forces (which apparently weren't renewable). The perceive stimulating effects of many things were viewed as primarily stimulating the base instincts and animal passions in people. That included spices, coffee, tea, alcohol, meat (which was typically highly seasoned).  And sexual stimulation was viewed as draining the vitality and life forces from people.  

[JoeMo]

Lyndon says:

"It happens a lot and happens it seems to young people consuming caffeine in addition to energy drinks."

 

I read about a guy that died from an overdose of  pure pharmaceutical caffiene; but again, this thread is about coffee; not pharmaceuticals. Again, I don't know of any documented case of a person dying from coffee poisoning.

 

If you think drinking coffee is immoral or dangerous, don't drink it.  I don't have an issue with the morality or danger of drinking coffee; so I will continue to enjoy my morning cup or two.

 

I've been asked if there will be coffee in heaven.  I don't think so - not because it is sinful; but because we probably won't need anything to keep our perfect immortal bodies alert and awake.  If there is coffee there, I'll drink it cuz I like it.

[whbae]

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/241613

 

Check above link for coffee

[Gerr]

The indications are that the antioxidant benefits of tea likely trumps any mild downside effects of caffeine.  The antioxidant value is long-term while the caffeine effect is short lived in comparison.  The same would be true of the potential anti cancer impact of various types, diabetes prevention/management, alzheimer risk reduction, etc. of coffee drinking.  For those in high risk for any of these areas, drinking a moderate amount of coffee would seem to be worth it.

 

It has also been long recognized that in attentional disorders that caffeine can work in the same way as Ritalin to control hyperactivity and improve focus.  I have seen that firsthand. I had heard of that possibility and observed it working once when my son was in elementary school.  I was a designated driver on a field trip an hour or two away from school and had the misfortune to having one of his classmates in my group that had missed his dose of Ritalin.   On the return trip he was practically bouncing off the ceiling of the van.  We stopped at one point and the kid ran into the Taco Bell and came out with a large Mountain Dew.  He quickly drank the whole thing.  I was thinking to my self that all that caffeine was the last thing a hyperactive kid needed!  He very quickly started to calm down and and was sound asleep before we got back to the school.  

Do people really drink coffee for its antioxidant and anti-cancer properties/  I HAVE already acknowledged that there are some medicinal/legitimate uses for caffeine.  But if you are healthy, would you take digitalis for its medicinal properties?  Why would you choose coffee for its little antioxidant and anti-cancer properties when you can get far more antioxidants from a bowl of blueberries or muscadine grapes, or anti-cancer properties from broccoli or kale without the jitters and adrenaline rush?

[Gerr]

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/241613

 

Check above link for coffee

Interesting!  Thanks.

[JoeMo]

wbhae,

I read the article.  Interesting.  I'm too tired too look up the references now; but there is much research that would contradict what was in the article.

 

BTW, the "recent" research done at Johns Hopkins is actually several years old.

 

If God wants me to quit drinking coffee, he'll let me know.  He and I have much more serious and pressing issues to work on before we get to something as trivial as coffee.

[Gerr]

I think we need to recognize the fact that much of what EGW had to say was reflective of the thinking of other health reformers of the latter part of the 19th Century.  It has been shown that there were other sources besides her in that era saying many of the same things she was saying.  It is interesting to note that any form of stimulation was considered harmful to the nervous system, draining the life forces (which apparently weren't renewable). The perceive stimulating effects of many things were viewed as primarily stimulating the base instincts and animal passions in people. That included spices, coffee, tea, alcohol, meat (which was typically highly seasoned).  And sexual stimulation was viewed as draining the vitality and life forces from people.  

Do you think her statement that Sunday is the mark of the beast is just a reflection of the thinking of her times, or just a "poor choice of words"?  If her counsel on coffee, meat, tea, alcohol, etc., was just a reflection of the thinking of her times, why did she not advocate the use of calomel, bleeding, or cocaine?  And wasn't there a time when doctors even used tobacco to treat asthma?

Advertising card

 

 

[Gerr]

wbhae,

I read the article.  Interesting.  I'm too tired too look up the references now; but there is much research that would contradict what was in the article.

 

BTW, the "recent" research done at Johns Hopkins is actually several years old.

 

If God wants me to quit drinking coffee, he'll let me know.  He and I have much more serious and pressing issues to work on before we get to something as trivial as coffee.

New does not necessarily mean better.  The findings of a scientific study that is well done will come to the same conclusion no matter which century it's done.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

If caffeine affects the ability of someone to "hear" God, then all those people who use prescribed and OTC caffeine for migraines would not be able to "hear" God clearly.

 

That would pose a dilemma...if it was true..

 

Can God not make Himself heard even through the mistiest of times?  Would God really want someone to suffer through migraine headaches when He has provided a source of relief?