pantheistic Eden

[joeb]

Tom,

You have not thought this through. Where did the existing material come from that God used here on earth? He spoke it into existance too, when He created the universe. There was nothing here that He hadn't already created.

[Tom Wetmore]

Completing missing the point. Please reread what I posted taken as a complete and connected thought. I believe you have overlooked much of what I said and misconstrued what I actually said. God spoke things into existence, yes. But creativeness is also transforming things into something completely new and different.

And the point was that humans in the image of God are given similar creative abilities, both in transforming raw materials into something else and creating new ideas from nothing that can be transformed into something real and material.

[debbym]

when God recreates us in His image,

he does not create and new body and physical brain that did not exist before,

the greatest miracle is that His wonderful love can take what we are, what we give him,

and then give back to us a new desire, a new mind a new heart that can love him, and that seeks His will in everything.

[Tom Wetmore]

You know, that is kind of what I had in the back of my mind when I commented about creative transformation. I am often fascinated to learn about people creatively taking things and using them or repurposing or transforming them in unexpected ways. I am amazed at God's ability to take anything and transform it, and repurpose it for his objectives. That any good can come of a tragedy, that death leads to life is a wonder of his creative power. I think ultimately the plan of salvation is a demonstration of how completely he can take the sin soaked elements, the rusty, dirty raw bits of this world and recreate them, transforming them to a whole new creation that we will be a part of.

[debbym]

yes tom,

yes yes yes

[joeb]

We don't often agree, but with this I am in perfect agreement with you.

[debbym]

david in the psalms said, I am fearfully and wonderfully made.

of all that we can see and measure and understand in creation, the physics and the astronomy, the oceans, and forms of minerals, and gases and living things.... i think we are the most amazing.

because we explore and examine and learn all about these things.

with our thinking and our senses, and instruments, we are truly amazing in our technology and science, but we can know in all of this, God is so infinitely greater in knowledge and understanding as we only reach into what God infinitely knows and understands as His creation.

i get concerned when people try to make God's creation into a physical extension of His person.

God has a relationship to us, we have autonomy yet he keeps us living and created us.

this fine line of creator and created is vital to comprehending the sacrifice Jesus made becoming a human being to save us. and to protect us from making a god of what God created, namely ourselves.

[phkrause]

excellent post debbym

[Gail]

Yep- I agree!