a mere "cliché"?

[skyblue888]

There is nothing in this world that can come close to the importance of becoming a Christian. This is why all of Heaven rejoices when a person accepts Jesus.

Dans

______________

All Heaven rejoices when a person accepts Jesus as a

personal Saviour. True but accepting Jesus has become

a mere "cliché".

The new birth is a very rare experience nowadays.

"There is not even one in one hundred who

understands for himself the Bible truth on this

subject that is so necessary to our present and

eternal welfare." 1 S.M.360.

There is nothing new under the sun. It was the

same in the days of Christ. Take Nicodemus for

example, a man in high position of trust. He

sought an interview with Jesus at night, saying,

"Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come

from God: for no man can do these miracles

that you do, except God be with him."

All this was true, as far as it went, but what did

Jesus say? He answered and said unto him,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Now if a man like Nicodemus needed to be born

again, what does that say about the common

people of his day who looked up to their spiritual

leaders for guidance?

So it is now.

[lazarus]

The new birth is a very rare experience nowadays.

I disagree. There are people being born again and accepting Jesus all the time. Thousands are being born again. Where do you get your information from that new birth is rare?

[joeb]

I disagree. There are people being born again and accepting Jesus all the time. Thousands are being born again. Where do you get your information from that new birth is rare?

[olger]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

The new birth is a very rare experience nowadays.

I disagree. There are people being born again and accepting Jesus all the time. Thousands are being born again. Where do you get your information from that new birth is rare?

That could be arguing over the term rare - which is a tad subjective.

Forsooth,

g

[debbym]

when there are 6 to 7 billion people on the earth, even 1 million people experiencing something is small enough percentage to be rare.

[lazarus]

when there are 6 to 7 billion people on the earth, even 1 million people experiencing something is small enough percentage to be rare.

That would mean childbirth is rare.

[Kevin H]

I would not say that it is super rare, however I think that too many "Christians" do not understand what it means. Satan has made a counterfeit "Born Again" experience of "saying the magic words" to be save. That you are born again if you say the words that you accept Jesus into your life and accept that Jesus died for you.

This has turned salvation into the works of saying the correct words and being able to give a history lesson. And anyone who does not say those words and does not understand the history lesson are not saved: Therefore if you are Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. you are automatically lost. Yes they have the "assurance of salvation" but they are in the danger of where they can look down on others, and they are exclusive of those who do not say the magic words.

What Jesus did on the cross is what saves us, whether we understand it or not, whether we know it or not. It is the relationship between the members of the trinity; that God is supreme and we realize our dependency on what ever is out there, but we cannot come to this supreme power except through yielding to a loving friendship with what ever is out there, and it is the Holy Spirit working in every person that points to this friendship.

Part of us wants this friendship, part of us wants to love the world as Jesus has loved it. This is not natural in us after sin, however it is a gift that God gave to us when we fell in Genesis 3:15, that while we have a sinful nature, there is something in us that is at enmity to sin and it's results, which is why we find a rose or a beautiful sunset beautiful and wars (that don't directly involve us) injustice and disasters horrible. I understand this to be our deepest desire; to want to be like and with Jesus, this is more desirable than gold, and sweeter than honey. Jesus is the desire of all nations, Jesus is the desire o ages, a neglected name of Jesus in the Bible is "The one beloved of women" or "The one desired by women".

However part of us is very uncomfortable with that friendship. When we are born we tend to go towards that which is uncomfortable with that friendship and just want to live for self, think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world, esteeming our selves more highly than others and often this results in evil surmisings and bitterness of spirit. If it was not for Genesis 3:15, this would be all there was to us after sin.

The typical person is wandering along sometimes yielding to our deepest desire, other times to our sinful nature, and other times we compromise. We may not kill someone, but we pick up their belongings, or drive around to steal hubcaps or steal catalytic converters off of other people's vehicles. We tell stories about others. We even use our friends or our advantage and keep score as to who is getting the bigger part of the relationship. Or at least we tend to look down on others.

As I understand the Bible, being born again is that when the Holy Spirit brings to our minds the realization of our two selves, that we start to consciously go towards the one rather than the other. That we start reaching out in kindness to what ever is out there and to the world around us. Being born again means that instead of making a habit of choosing selfishness in us and allowing our sinful nature to control us, that we choose to yield to the Holy Spirit pointing Jesus to us.

When we are in a relationship with someone, there are different ways of communication; letters, e-mail, phone calls, and being with the person.

The born again experience transcends religion and cultures. The role of evangelism and missionaries is two fold: One is to help to bring more to the conscious mind this relationship and a clearer picture as to who their friend is out there. And to help those who have not had the born again experience maybe make a more conscious choice. The words about accepting Jesus and his death on the cross is not what saves us, but can be a valuable tool in having a better understanding and having the road pointed out rather than being one of the few who end up finding it.

Dr. Chan was a dentist in Cambodia. One day at work he learned that the Khmer Rouge was in power, he threw down his glasses and trampled them to pieces, fled from his office and went home taking his family and fled his home and went to a part of Cambodia where no one knew him and he pretended that he was illiterate and just a migrant worker. He would pay attention and noticed a chance to cross the border into Thailand and go to a refugee camp.

In the camp he heard some Protestant missionaries talk about Jesus. He found it interesting. Eventually he was able to come to the United States, where a lady, Judith Hyder, was helping Cambodian refugees. One of the things Mrs. Hyder would do was to take the refugees to the Long Beach Cambodian church on Sabbath, and he and his family would routinely accept her ride.

One Sabbath during the sermon Mrs. Hyder noticed that Dr. Chan's eyes went wide, the color change and while not shaking, there was obvious something about Dr. Chan that was shaken. After church he looked for a place to be alone and think. As Mrs. Hyder approached him to ask what was wrong Dr. Chan replied "It's him!" he went on to explain, All my life I felt that there was someone out there who loved me and wanted to be my friend. It was not a voice I'd hear or anything tangible, but an understanding that I had a friend there. I felt that it was this friend who got me to remove my glasses and flee when I heard that the Khmer Rouge came into power. I feel that this friend is who helped me get into Thailand and to the United States. While I heard about Jesus at the refugee camps and here at church, today I came to the realization that this long time friend of mine is Jesus. I always knew that there was someone there, somewhat of a vagueness but knowledge that there was someone there, now I know for sure that it was more than just a vague feeling but that my friend is indeed real and is Jesus.

Dr. Chan was born again when he was a Buddhist who choose to yield to the influence that there was something out there that wanted to be his friend and he choose the friendship. Long before he heard about Jesus and the cross and long before he understood that this friend of his was Jesus.

[Gibs]

The proof of the new birth in Him of the Spirit is in the following after supposedly being born again.

One does not continue in sin if he truly is born again, a new creature who is now dead to sin and the old man.

Paul's answer,

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ro 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error