Criteria for deciding which earthquake has Biblical Implications?

[Taylor]

We all know that most SDA's believe that the Lisbon earthquake of 1755 was part of what Bible Prophecy predicted. (By the way an apparently "first person" account of that earthquake is found here http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1755lisbonquake.html and is quite interesting reading.)

So why did we choose the Lisbon earthquake? Was it only because it was so catostrophic with the after shocks, fires, and sunami that followed?

I am curious what the rest of you think, due to the fact that this most recent quake in South Asia seems pretty dreadful as well. (Does anyone know if this the worst quake in recent history?)

[Beryl]

Hi, Taylor,

Just a quick reply at this stage. God gave a very long-term prophecy in Daniel that reached through to what was termed "the time of the end". Not "the end of time", but the time which would mark the end of time-based prophecies, such as the 2,300 day prophecy, and which would lead into the time during which there were still many prophecies to be fulfilled, but none giving specific dates, and which would end at the close of probabion just before Jesus returns.

Prophecy foretold that near the "time of the end" there would be a great earthquake, the darkening of the sun, and signs in the moon, the the falling stars.

The first of these signs was the Lisbon earthquake -- a very destructive earthquake, coming as the "time of the end" was getting nearer. This was followed in 1833 by the Dark Day, and the moon looking like blood, and the great falling of the stars -- the biggest meteorite shower ever seen. The last "time prophecy" ended in 1844, when they expected the Lord to come, only to be disappointed. It was not that Jesus didn't come on time, but that they had mistaken the event that was to take place. That time marked a change in the ministry of Jesus in the heavenly sanctuary. His coming is still in the future, but once again we find the predicted signs of that event coming thick and fast.

God bless

Beryl

[bevin]

The Millerites, having set a date in the 1840's, looked over the previous 100 years for events that seemed significant enough to match these prophecies.

They settled on three events that, in hindsight, are hard to justify.

The falling of the stars was clearly a meteorite shower - although a very spectacular one. I would say this one comes closer to being plausible than others. Contemporary artwork (see Days of Delusion) clearly show streaks originating from a single point in the sky.

The Lisbon earthquake was not big enough to truely stand out.

The Dark Day is a complete farce. Contemporary accounts in town records here in NH (where I live) show the following facts

(1) It was only a 30x30 mile square seriously effected

(2) It was well understood at the time to be a combination of forest-clearing fires that had been going on for several days with fog and cloud.

http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nh/county/hillsborough/manchester/book/chap20_1.html

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The greatest alarm prevailed among all classes at this singular phenomenon. The more excitable ran about exclaiming that "the day of judgment was at hand;" while the more phlegmatic were filled with astonishment and surprise, not to say, alarm. The darkness was owing to natural causes. Fire had been raging in the wilderness northwestward, for a long time. Smoke and cinders filled the air, the west wind prevailing. On the night of the 18th and 19th, the wind changed and blew form [sic ?from] the eastward, bringing in from the Ocean a dense fog. The fog and clouds meeting, loaded as it were with smoke, soot, and cinders, formed an impenatrable stratum in the atmosphere, that for hours shut out the light of day.

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/Bevin

[Taylor]

Thanks! I appreciate your insight. I can agree with your explanation...but was wondering "how much towards the beginning of the end" do you finally say "well this is the end of the beginning of the end" before you keep the "old earth quake" as the "proof". In other words, since Jesus hasn't come back yet, and although I believe it will be very soon, which earthquake do we take into consideration?

On the other hand, it also doesn't matter which earthquake is "the one" or "one of the ones" we should be "looking at". The important thing is to have a relationship with Jesus so that one day he will say "you know what? It is closer to my house than yours now, so lets just go home."

[CyberGuy]

Historical Depictions of the 1755 Lisbon Earthquake

Jan T. Kozak, Institue of Rock Mechanics, Czech Academy of Science

Charles D. James, National Information Service for Earthquake Engineering

Note: With permission, this paper is abridged and edited from drafts of a longer work in progress by V. S. Moreira, C. Nunes and J. Kozak on the Lisbon Earthquake of 1755. The images presented here are taken from the NISEE Kozak Collection of Images of Historical Earthquakes.

Depictions of the earthquake in art and literature can be found in several European countries, and these were produced and reproduced for centuries following the event, which came to be known as "The Great Lisbon Earthquake."

The earthquake began at 9:30 on November 1st, 1755, and was centered in the Atlantic Ocean, about 200 km WSW of Cape St. Vincent. The total duration of shaking lasted ten minutes and was comprised of three distinct jolts. Effects from the earthquake were far reaching. The worst damage occurred in the south-west of Portugal. Lisbon, the Portuguese capital, was the largest and the most important of the cities damaged. Severe shaking was felt in North Africa and there was heavy loss of life in Fez and Mequinez. Moderate damage was done in Algiers and in southwest Spain. Shaking was also felt in France, Switzerland, and Northern Italy. A devastating fire following the earthquake destroyed a large part of Lisbon, and a very strong tsunami caused heavy destruction along the coasts of Portugal, southwest Spain, and western Morocco.

The oscillation of suspended objects at great distances from the epicenter indicate an enormous area of perceptibility. The observation of seiches as far away as Finland, suggest a magnitude approaching 9.0. Precursory phenomena were reported, including turbid waters in Portugal and Spain, falling water level in wells in Spain, and a decrease in water flow in springs and fountains.

http://nisee.berkeley.edu/lisbon/

I think it was the timeing of the earthquake. It was at the end of the 2300 day prophecy and it was the most profound in European history.

[]http://z.about.com/d/geology/1/0/7/8/1755lisbonharbor.jpg[/]

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Geology

Geology Lisbon Earthquake, 1 November 1755

Images from the Kozak Collection, Earthquake Engineering Research Center (fair use policy)

Lisbon, Portugal, was struck by a great earthquake on 1 November 1755. This copper engraving, made that year, shows the city in ruins and in flames. Tsunamis rush upon the shore, destroying the wharfs. The engraving is also noteworthy in showing highly disturbed water in the harbor, which sank many ships. Passengers in the left foreground show signs of panic.

The earthquake struck in mid-morning during a high religious holiday, All Souls Day. Shortly afterward, three large tsunamis swept over the city's harbor and killed many thousands of refugees. A week later, after untamable fires and unremitting aftershocks, essentially the whole city was in ashes, its people scattered, and perhaps half of its population dead. The eyewitness account of the quake and its aftermath by Rev. Charles Davy makes horrifying reading.

http://geology.about.com/library/bl/bllisbon1755eq.htm

[CyberGuy]

May 19

A Genuine Unsolved Mystery

On May 19, 1780, an unexplained midday darkness fell over New England. The length of time the phenomenon lasted varied depended on the location of the observer, but the accounts indicate that it was at least several hours in duration. The intensity of the darkness also varied.

It was not an eclipse and if it were a volcanic ash cloud, the source has never been found. (Coincidentally, two hundred years minus one day after the Dark Day, Mount St. Helens erupted, causing a similar darkness to blanket some parts of the Pacific Northwest.) Some scientists believe that the cause was a great cloud of smoke from massive forest fires west of New England, but this is still theory.

John Greenleaf Whittier, "the Quaker poet" of Snowbound fame, wrote a poem about the day, focusing on the actions of the Connecticut legislature, which was in session when the darkness fell. Whittier was born little more than 20 years after the event, and was therefore almost certainly privy to the first-person accounts of many New Englanders. Other accounts exist in old journals and letters.

Naturally enough, many people apparently thought that the day of judgment was at hand, and even now on the Internet the references to the Dark Day are made as some sort of proof that Biblical prophesies are being fulfilled. And to those people I wish to direct a question:

http://www.goatview.com/may19darkness1790.htm

THE DARK DAY

The 19th day of May, 1780, was unprecedented in New England for its great darkness. The sun was visible a little while in the morning, but was soon obscured by clouds. For some days previous the air had been filed with smoke, arising, it was supposed, from extensive fires, somewhere raging in the woods. Prevailing westerly winds had spread the smoke over a very great extent of country. On the morning of the 19th, the wind, though variable, was principally from the eastward, and brought with it a dense fog from the ocean. This meeting and mingling with the clouds and smoke formed a mass almost impervious to light. The darkness became noticeable a little before eleven o'clock, and rapidly increased. Domestic fowls went to roost, and cattle collected around the barn yards, as at the approach of night. About noon it became necessary to light candles, and these were needed through the remainder of the day, thought he darkness was greatest from twelve to one o'clock. The darkness of the evening was scarcely less remarkable than that of the day. Dr. Belknap says: "It presented a complete specimen of as total darkness as can be conceived. About midnight a light breeze sprang up from the north or northeast, which dispersed the clouds and vapors, and it soon began to grow light.

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(1) It was only a 30x30 mile square seriously effected

(2) It was well understood at the time to be a combination of forest-clearing fires that had been going on for several days with fog and cloud.

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The darkness extended over several thousand square miles, though differing much in intensity in different places. Nowhere, perhaps, was it greater than in this vicinity. The day was appropriately called, and is still known, as THE DARK DAY.

http://www.hampton.lib.nh.us/hampton/history/dow/chap12/dow12_14.htm

[bevin]

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The darkness extended over several thousand square miles

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30 x 30 = 900 square miles

50 x 50 = 2500 square miles

Several thousand square miles is NOT a big area

/Bevin

[LifeHiscost]

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Taylor said:

I am curious what the rest of you think, due to the fact that this most recent quake in South Asia seems pretty dreadful as well. (Does anyone know if this the worst quake in recent history?)

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According to one report on the media, it was the worst in 100 years for that part of the country (Pakistan?) Its' biblical significance would seem to be its' conjunction with other castrophic events happening so close to one another in the last few years.

[:"red"] "As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you.

"For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.

"You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

"For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.

"But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

"Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.

"At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.

"Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.

"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.

"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

[/] Matt 24:3-14 NASB

Keep the faith!

[bevin]

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it was the worst in 100 years for that part of the country

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Since there is way more than 100 places, events that only happen every hundred years are happening in many places of the world every few days

/Bevin

[Amelia]

Major earthquakes around the world in last 50 years:

- Oct. 8, 2005: Pakistani Kashmir; magnitude 7.6; more than 1,700 killed.

- March 28, 2005: Sumatra, Indonesia; magnitude 8.7; up to 1,000 killed.

- Dec. 26, 2004: Sumatra, Indonesia; magnitude 9.0; more than 176,000 people killed in 11 countries from earthquake and subsequent tsunami.

- Dec. 26, 2003: Bam, Iran; magnitude 6.5; more than 26,000 killed.

- May 21, 2003: Northern Algeria; magnitude 6.8; nearly 2,300 killed.

- March 25, 2002: Northern Afghanistan; magnitude 5.8; up to 1,000 killed.

- Jan. 26, 2001: India; magnitude 7.9; at least 2,500 killed. Estimates put death toll as high as 13,000.

- Sept. 21, 1999: Taiwan; magnitude 7.6; 2,400 killed.

- Aug. 17, 1999: Western Turkey; magnitude 7.4; 17,000 killed.

- Jan. 25, 1999: Western Colombia; magnitude 6; 1,171 killed.

- May 30, 1998: Northern Afghanistan and Tajikistan; magnitude 6.9; as many as 5,000 killed.

- Jan. 17, 1995: Kobe, Japan; magnitude 7.2; more than 6,000 killed.

- Sept. 30, 1993: Latur, India; magnitude 6.0; as many as 10,000 killed.

- June 21, 1990: Northwest Iran; magnitude 7.3-7.7; 50,000 killed.

- Dec. 7, 1988: Northwest Armenia; magnitude 6.9; 25,000 killed.

- Sept. 19, 1985: Central Mexico; magnitude 8.1; more than 9,500 killed.

- Sept. 16, 1978: Northeast Iran; magnitude 7.7; 25,000 killed.

- July 28, 1976: Tangshan, China; magnitude 7.8-8.2; 240,000 killed.

- Feb. 4, 1976: Guatemala; magnitude 7.5; 22,778 killed.

- Feb. 29, 1960: Southwest Atlantic coast in Morocco; magnitude 5.7; some 12,000 killed, town of Agadir destroyed.

[Naomi]

Thanks Amelia. When you look at like that it puts it into perspective.

[Taylor]

Interesting that the Lisbon earthquake caused far more death and destruction than most of these. However, others have been more catostrophic such as the sunami etc. Thanks for the data.

Whatever the case..it will be wonderful when Jesus comes to take us all home! Amid all the happiness here, there is a lot of sadness. I wish I could go right now to Pakistan and help them in some way!

[bevin]

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I wish I could go right now to Pakistan and help them in some way!

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They have PEOPLE, what they need is MONEY.

Since the trip would cost you around $2,000, I suggest you donate that to a relevant and honest charity such as ADRA.

/Bevin

[LifeHiscost]

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bevin said:

Since there is way more than 100 places, events that only happen every hundred years are happening in many places of the world every few days

/Bevin

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And your point is...? And please feel free to list the every century earthquakes that have happened around the world in the last month. I'm sure you could google a source for confirmation.

I don't see anything in the Scriptures that indicates the magnitude as necessary to indicate endtime events, although those large enough to be newsworthy have gone from a hundred or so a year, to over 3000 per year in the last decade or so.

Anyone interested in events that are listed as signs of biblical proportions to indicate the age we're living in, doesn't have to restrict there choice to earthquakes. That is only one sign among many.

[:"red"] "Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its buds become tender and its leaves begin to sprout, you know without being told that summer is near. 33Just so, when you see the events I've described beginning to happen, you can know his return is very near, right at the door." [/] Matthew 24:32,33 NLT

Keep looking up!!