Moderators lazarus Posted October 16, 2013 Moderators Posted October 16, 2013 Rush Limbaugh: "I was trying to think if ever in my life, I could remember any major political party being so irrelevant. I have never seen it. I have never seen a major political party simply occupy placeholders, as the Republican party has been doing. There has not been any serious opposition...against what's happening in this country. The Republicans have done everything they can to try to make everyone like them and what they've ended up doing is creating one of the greatest political disasters I've ever seen in my lifetime...I was pondering if I could ever remember...a time when a political party just made a decision not to exist, for all intents and purposes." Is it time for tea party conservatives to form a new political party? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Ted Oplinger Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Conservatives are going to be villified, no matter what. Right now, there is a supreme struggle going on within the Republican Party - between the conservatives who are tired of being misrepresented by the Republican Party, and the blue-blood Rockefeller politicos who style themselves as "centrist", but are really just trying to reserve the Republican party as a place where conservative Democrats fled to after being purged from that party. After the Democrat Party made the decision to become very hard left in the 1980's, the Republican party did become the "Big Tent", the refuge for those left behind out of the Democrat Party. After Reagan stepped down, though, most of the Republican Party politicos shut down the conservatives as being useful for anything but a vote source. Oh, there was a brief hurrah with the '94 mid-term elections - but with time, the Republican Party establishment demonstrated what it really was: a throw-back to the old Democrat Party, somewhat centrist politically, but big on government, big on spending. Those currently running the Republican Party are NOT conservatives, by any stretch of the imagination. Confessed conservatives - who make up a third of this nation statistically - do not have a real voice or representation in the American government. The Libertarian Party is too split between conservative and liberal wings to have formed any real chance as a viable third party - it remains the refuge of those voting for intellectual pride. It is essentially a waste of a vote, as the Libertarian Party has not elected to office any congressman, senator, or executive officer on a consistent basis on a national level. The conservative has three choices: take over the Republican Party (recent strategy), take over the Libertarian Party (deemed not really workable), or desert the Republican Party and form a new party of their own. The latter is becoming an increasingly viable option. Should the conservatives form their own party, they would become immediately competitive - and the Republican Party would likely find itself just trying to hang on to being as significant as the Libertarian Party currently is nationwide. There is far more support for conservatives than is generally acknowledged. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Members phkrause Posted October 16, 2013 Members Posted October 16, 2013 Is it time for tea party conservatives to form a new political party? The problem I see with that, is, every time either party has a split, all it does is take votes away from that party. It doesn't help at all. Nobody seems to want to vote for that 3rd party! Also as one poster has mentioned a few times, and which I agree with, a vote for a third party candidate, is a vote for no one! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Members phkrause Posted October 16, 2013 Members Posted October 16, 2013 Conservatives are going to be villified, no matter what. that goes without saying, and so are liberals villified no matter what! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Ted Oplinger Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 But liberals at least have a solid party which represents their voice. Can anyone legitimately say the same for conservatives? Anyone who says the Republican Party is conservatism, is ignorant of what really constitutes conservatism. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Members phkrause Posted October 16, 2013 Members Posted October 16, 2013 But liberals at least have a solid party which represents their voice. Can anyone legitimately say the same for conservatives? Anyone who says the Republican Party is conservatism, is ignorant of what really constitutes conservatism. I've never said there were. So I hope that remark is not directed at me!!!!!! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Guest Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 But liberals at least have a solid party which represents their voice. Can anyone legitimately say the same for conservatives? Anyone who says the Republican Party is conservatism, is ignorant of what really constitutes conservatism. That's exactly right. The left is unified with no dissension in the ranks. But us conservatives have been sold down the river by a bunch of Democrat lites, who call themselves Republicans. I have a feeling that there is going to be a conservative uprising to vote most, if not all of these bums out of office. And replace them with true conservatives who will do what they have promised, and were elected to do, and take back the Republican party by doing so. Hope so anyway. :) Quote
Ted Oplinger Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 PK, the very first sentence - could be viewed as a direct answer. The rest is definitely a general point not directed at you personally. There are those present here in the forum who seem to think Republican = conservative.... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Ted Oplinger Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger But liberals at least have a solid party which represents their voice. Can anyone legitimately say the same for conservatives? Anyone who says the Republican Party is conservatism, is ignorant of what really constitutes conservatism. That's exactly right. The left is unified with no dissension in the ranks. But us conservatives have been sold down the river by a bunch of Democrat lites, who call themselves Republicans. I have a feeling that there is going to be a conservative uprising to vote most, if not all of these bums out of office. And replace them with true conservatives who will do what they have promised, and were elected to do, and take back the Republican party by doing so. Hope so anyway. Either that, or conservatives will break away and form their own party. The vacuum of political representation, the suppression of political voice, does not go on without resolution one way or another. It is precisely that issue which sparked the Revolutionary War. The establishment then (aka, Tories), sought to suppress any dissent against the King. However, neither the King nor the Parliament would allow the concerns and issues of the American colonies to be accurately voiced in Parliament. Laws and edicts promulgated in a dictatorial fashion, in opposition to the basic rules of law, is a dangerous place to park one's party in. Currently, the media and both political parties have done just that with regard to America's conservatives - who openly make up a third of this nation's perspective. Many more are silent conservatives - they do not make their choice known save in private and in the voting both. Our current political establishment does not realize that making that percentage of the population openly angry has consequences. Our alphabet media also thinks they can play the game with impunity. We live in..."interesting times"... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Members phkrause Posted October 16, 2013 Members Posted October 16, 2013 There are those present here in the forum who seem to think Republican = conservative....Exactly! And there not Democrats! Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
bonnie Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 There are those present here in the forum who seem to think Republican = conservative....Exactly! And there not Democrats! Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members phkrause Posted October 16, 2013 Members Posted October 16, 2013 Exactly wrong. Those posting in this forum are conservatives that are forced into a republican vote if they are going to vote.Well I disagree. No one is ever forced, we each have a choice. Originally Posted By: bonnie There is major differences between those of us that are conservative and those that are republican first This I can agree with. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
bonnie Posted October 16, 2013 Posted October 16, 2013 Well I disagree. No one is ever forced, we each have a choice. Hopefully you understood when I said if we make the choice to vote,conservatives have little in the way of choice Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators lazarus Posted October 17, 2013 Author Moderators Posted October 17, 2013 Either that, or conservatives will break away and form their own party. The vacuum of political representation, the suppression of political voice, does not go on without resolution one way or another. It is precisely that issue which sparked the Revolutionary War. Do you really think that Cruz, Gohlmert, Bachman are less venal that any other politician? Cruz raised a ton of money from his latest escapade. Who are these people? Will those people want something in return for their money? Of course they will. I read an article that suggested that George Bush would be known as the last republican president. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
Ted Oplinger Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Originally Posted By: pkrause Well I disagree. No one is ever forced, we each have a choice. Hopefully you understood when I said if we make the choice to vote,conservatives have little in the way of choice So...if a conservative sees no real representative choice available, they shouldn't exercise their civic responsibility in opposing those whose policies conflict with conservatism? Bonnie, I have to agree with your response to that - conservatives have little choice in many areas of this country, but neither should a conservative just sit at home, precluded from voting because the major parties don't want to represent the conservative voice. Down here in Texas, one would expect the Democrat Party to be moderated by the very conservative political climate here. It is not the case. Those who are Democrats here are very much aligned with national party. Though comparatively few, their voice is accurately represented by Democrat's policies on the national level. Not so with conservatives. Republicans have consistently thrown a bone to conservatives, but then sell them down the river in every major policy decision. Even here in Texas, The Republican Party is largely composed of of the right of center, establishment politicians who used to be Democrats here. As the Democrat Party shifted further and further left in the 80's and 90's, Texas went solid "Republican" because these Democrats refused to go along with the new direction of the Democrat Party. That makes the "Republican" party majority establishment, and not necessarily majority conservative. Conservatism thrives at the local levels; however, at the state level, conservatism hits a glass ceiling much of the time. The state power brokers say it must be "moderated" (aka, compromised) to be accepted at the state level. Only when the electorate here refuses the establishment here, does conservatism find a real representation here. In our last senatorial election, our Lt. Governor was the anointed candidate. The Republican Party officials were totally confident Dewhurst would win: they fully backed him, fully funded the war chest, and had all the state endorsements. Ted Cruz was a non-person in their eyes; his conservatism was unabashed and uncompromising, so the party brokers had slated him to paddle around in his own district, "contained". But Ted Cruz ignited a conservative fire, and Republican party officials were completely unprepared for the shellacking their establishment candidate received from an articulate conservative candidate. The final vote wasn't even close, even though Dewhurst ran what most would consider a good campaign here in Texas. The Democrat Party has yet to meet a fully conservative opposition; they had loads of trouble with 1 conservative senator from Texas - who has won conservative backing all across this nation in doing so. The Republican Party has yet to field a fully conservative position; they had loads of trouble with 1 conservative senator from Texas who articulated that position and refused to "sit down and shut up". He refused to simply be seen and not heard from. In refusing to be cowed, he won support from the conservative wing. Both of these entities turned their venomous rhetoric on Ted Cruz, and enlisted the media to smear the conservative position. Could it be time to lead the conservative wing out of the Republican Party? Many conservatives are coming to that conclusion....If conservatives are to be vilified, then let them be vilified for what they truly are, and not for the completely compromised product Republicans present conservatives to be. The thing is, I think conservatism truly voiced, presented, and put into policy would win far more support than is generally acknowledged. Reagan proved that 30 years ago. Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Ted Oplinger Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger Either that, or conservatives will break away and form their own party. The vacuum of political representation, the suppression of political voice, does not go on without resolution one way or another. It is precisely that issue which sparked the Revolutionary War. Do you really think that Cruz, Gohlmert, Bachman are less venal that any other politician? Cruz raised a ton of money from his latest escapade. Who are these people? Will those people want something in return for their money? Of course they will. I read an article that suggested that George Bush would be known as the last republican president. Quite the cynical outlook, Laz. If the major parties are all venal, then the upcoming conservatives MUST be as venal... Given that political contributions are accorded status as political speech, the point that Cruz raised a ton of money from this latest event in Washington could also be viewed as conservatives backing someone who finally is demonstrating enough backbone to stand against the tide, even if knowing it will be a battle lost in the end. With conservatives, it's not just how a candidate wins, but also how they lose, that demonstrates what their character is like. Boehner and McConnell, McCain and Graham, and all their allies - all simply rolled over, never capitalizing on Democrat missteps, never using the political capital literally dumped into their laps. Venal, Laz? That does describe the Democrat and the Republican leadership well. Conservatives haven't had a good leader since Reagan; even then, it was a long dry spell since Coolidge. How about giving them a shot at real power, to see if they'd be that venal or not? Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Guest Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Boehner and McConnell, McCain and Graham, and all their allies - all simply rolled over, never capitalizing on Democrat missteps, never using the political capital literally dumped into their laps. And that's the part that makes me pull my hair out, and be sarcastic with my dog. Quote
Moderators lazarus Posted October 19, 2013 Author Moderators Posted October 19, 2013 Quite the cynical outlook, Laz. If the major parties are all venal, then the upcoming conservatives MUST be as venal... I think it's a realistic view. It's the only perspective that can make sense of the mess that is Washington. I think many of the people who go to Washington are good well intentioned people but they get corrupted by the money and everything that comes with it. Ted we now live in a corporate state. Corporations call the shots. All politicians must now take their money in order to get elected. He that pays the piper.......... Quote: Venal, Laz? That does describe the Democrat and the Republican leadership well. Conservatives haven't had a good leader since Reagan; even then, it was a long dry spell since Coolidge. You know my view of Reagan already but I think it is no longer possible for a "good" leader to be elected. Quote: How about giving them a shot at real power, to see if they'd be that venal or not? Asked who won in these two weeks, Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.) said “the people that managed to raise a lot of money off this.” Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
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