How to wreck a pastor

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

So you wanna take your pastor to lunch so you can "gently" tell him what he's doing wrong?

WHOA, THERE, Pardner!!

Here's a great little article about that, written by David Murrow:

I’m speeding down the freeway in a southern state. “George” has just picked me up at the airport. I’m schedule to speak in at his church a few hours.

George seems like a great guy. He’s a committed Christian who adores his wife and kids. He loves his church, and has been attending, giving and serving there for more than a decade.

We chat about jobs, kids, and Alaska. Then the topic turns toward my area of expertise: why men hate going to church.

“You know what I hate about church?” George says. “They brought in this new associate pastor a couple of years ago, and he’s said some very controversial things from the pulpit.”

“Like what?” I ask.

“He’s kind of a liberal. He’s made fun of Glenn Beck and Fox News. He tries to make us feel guilty for driving SUVs. I mean, I like the guy but I don’t think he preaches the Gospel.”

“Hmmm,” I say. George continues.

Man lecturing his pastor“So a few months ago I invited him to lunch. I called him on a few doctrinal errors. I told him what I thought of his preaching. I tried to be very upbeat and kind about it.”

“What did he say?” I asked.

“Not a lot. He thanked me for bringing these things to his attention. But it really hasn’t changed the way he preaches,” George said. “He kind of ignores me at church, though.”

Readers, if you want to wreck a pastor, take him to lunch – and then correct him.

As a layperson you may not realize how much “helpful advice” pastors get. Most of it’s delivered gently and is well meaning — but a lot of it is downright hurtful. The sheer volume of suggestions, criticism and second-guessing wears pastors down.

After five years in the pulpit, your average pastor has probably endured dozens of these “attack lunches.” He knows what’s coming – and he’d rather steer clear.

Because of these frequent beat downs, some pastors develop a foxhole mentality. They avoid their people. They spend a lot of time in their study. They pack their schedules. They steer clear of their men.

Some pastors become so hungry for an encouraging word they surround themselves with sycophants. They turn to alcohol, pornography or an illicit affair to salve their wounds and find acceptance.

So what can you do to help your pastor (instead of wreck him)? Here’s some advice:

Encourage your pastor every time you see him. Smile at him. Tell him what a good job he’s doing – even if you may be disappointed by something he said or did.

Pray for your pastor. Ask for God’s blessing on his work life and personal life. If Jesus told us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, how much more should we pray for friends and associates with whom we disagree?

If you invite a minister to do something, let him know clearly that you’re not grinding an ax. “Hey Pastor Steve, let’s grab lunch sometime. No agenda —I just want to get to know you better and encourage you.” Then be sure to keep your axe at home.

Now, what should you do when your pastor says or does something you object to?

Ask yourself: is this simply a matter where Christians are free to disagree, or has the pastor crossed the line into outright heresy? If it is the former, then let it go.

Trust God to deal with the situation. Maybe your pastor will change his mind – or you may need to change yours.

If the pastor has said or done something you consider heretical, your next move should be to pray. Read the scriptures. Seek the counsel of ONE or TWO other believers in the church (Don’t start a whisper campaign against your pastor). If the other believers don’t think the pastor is out of line, then let it go. Trust your friends’ judgment.

If you and at least two others agree that the pastor is in serious error, take your concerns to the elders of the church. Pray for discernment on their part. Then let it go. Trust the elders to handle it.

If the situation still isn’t resolved to your satisfaction, pray more. Ask the Lord if he may be leading you to attend a different church.

If you decide to change churches, write the elders a letter explaining your move. Keep the tone positive. Don’t blast the pastor or elders. Simply point out your differences and wish your old church well. A brief, gracious letter will have a much greater impact than AN ANGRY, SINGLE-SPACED, ALL CAPS DIATRIBE FULL OF EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!

Most of all, be humble enough to realize that YOU may be the one in error. Humans tend to fixate on what’s wrong – ask the Lord to help you see what’s right about your pastor. And finally, trust the Lord to deal with these situations. Take action only as a last resort.

Pastors have a difficult job. Most are underpaid. Preaching the gospel always offends someone. We heap unrealistic expectations on them. And we demand they never make a mistake.

Don’t make your pastor’s job any harder by offering unsolicited advice. The best thing you can do for your pastor is to pray for him and his ministry. Encourage him. It’s not your job to school your pastor or change his heart – that’s God’s job.

And if you do take him to lunch, be sure to pick up the check.

source

[Gail]

Great article! Thanks for sharing that, Pam :)

[JoeMo]

Great article, Pam. I think pastors are regular guys - they are just called to a different profession than most of us. One thing they miss is true "no walls up" friendship - people to just hang out with rather than all religious debate. I might have an occasional theological discussion with my pastor, but never a debate. My own theology changes the more I study. I once was a raving legalist; but I'm getting over that. Doctrine and dogma is one thing; a relationship with God is another. But you know that - your "theology" has changed a lot over the past couple years.

Bless you.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

I once was a raving legalist; but I'm getting over that. Doctrine and dogma is one thing; a relationship with God is another.

I'm wondering what a raving legalist does. Maybe I'm one of those.

Since doctrine only means a teaching, I'm wondering which teaching from the Word are you finding inner conflict about. And does the conflict we feel uncomfortable with re: a doctrine, mean we should only listen to the "doctrine" when we feel good about putting it into practice?

Just asking!

God cares!

[ClubV12]

I like your thoughts here LifeHiscost. For the sake of balance let us consider Auntie Ellens comment around 1888, I paraphrase, "We have become as dry as the hills of Gilboa talking about the law." She was thrilled with this new, clear explanation of righteousness by faith. A subject she had been preaching for fifty years. Yet, these men, Jones and Wagonner, had found a new way of expressing the same truth she had expressed over and over. People could understand it a little easier.

Sometimes, as you read her work, one can be left with the impression Sister White was a "raving legalist". But when you understand her testimonies correctly (through the Spirit) you begin to see she IS preaching righteousness by faith, always has been. I find it everywhere in her work!

Following 1888 she counseled A.T. Jones that he had taken the message of R by F to far. Jones was moving to a position of faith was everything, becoming unbalanced. And theres the rub, no matter what the doctrine, trying to stay in the middle of the road is the work of the Holy Spirit on our heart. We of ourselves, will always drift to the ditch on one side or the other.

Sometimes I feel like I myself am the "raging legalist" around here. But the fact is, "we", as a Church, as a forum, have been leaning to heavily on faith and love, while minimizing the law.

Maybe I should take the Pastor to lunch and explain this to him?

OK, maybe not...

[Gail]

I am wondering yet again whether we are too dependent on our pastor. To those who are gaining much light from their personal devotion the weekly Sabbath sermon might not be as big a chunk of our spiritual nourishment.

[CoAspen]

Maybe a dragon companion would help......the message seems to get lost!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

what does a raging legalist, Ellen White, or righteousness by faith have to do with this topic????

If someone wants to discuss those topics, shouldn't they be taken to one of the Theology forums?

[Naomi]

Good article ...

[Gerr]

I understand what the author is trying to say, bbbbbuuuut, it's ok for the pastor to preach about changes that need to be made in my life but it's a no no to take him privately and show him how he can improve?

[phkrause]

Great article. I know a Pastor from up north here, who got a call to go south to be pastor of a church. Everyone loved him, but than he started having marital problems and eventually they divorced and the members started telling him that he really couldn't be the pastor, and they voted him out! This might be a little but does go to how members can wreck a pastor.

[ClubV12]

Depending on the circumstances of the divorce, as per the Church Manual, he cannot be a Pastor. Without the details, I would have to assume the members of the congragation were correct.

From this I conclude that some Pastors need to be wrecked? Man, that sounds harsh, but it is true. God forbid that I cause the Pastor to stumble!!

[phkrause]

From what I could gather, neither he or his wife were having an affair. It had to do with his job, she thought he was spending to much time helping the members, etc. I believe this is what Paul was referring to, when he mentioned that minister, pastors, etc., should not marry.

[CoAspen]

I guess we have an idea who would be riding in the car telling the pastor......

[CoAspen]

Can we keep this topic of how to support a pastor instead of the opposite?

Sheesh....some seem to have an issue of not seeing sonlight!

[JoeMo]

It's not the "legalist" part I am trying to undo; it's the "raving" part. I don't think you are a "raving" legalist. We share a big chunk of common belief. I'm not comfortable with just the "warm fuzzy" stuff; I understand that the "Great Tribulation" is coming (if not already upon us); and it ain't gonna be a picnic.

When I say doctrine or dogma, I'm talking about conformance to a fixed set of denominational principles. I am responsible for defining and adhering to my relationship with God; not for adhering to the principles of Adventism. There is a HUGE overlap - that's why I still identify with Adventism. But even if I were a strict "fire and brimstone" kind of guy, I don't have a right to "rage" about my spiritual convictions at the expense of dissing someone else's. Does that make any sense?

[Gerr]

Supporting the pastor also includes reproof when it is needed. See the letter to the 7 churches in Rev. And in 60 yrs that I have been a SDA, I've only done that once that I remember.

[Gregory Matthews]

Gerry, this must be done very carefully.

I once spent 2-hours talking to a female about her relation to her pastor. She packed her bags and moved 2,000 plus miles away from him. I respect her to this day.

I spent some time with that pastor and told him that he had a decision to make. If he wanted to continue as a SDA pastor he needed to change his relationships with women. He informed me that he would do anything except to change his relationships with women.

I helped him out of denominational employment.

I helped his wife to establish a new life.

[Gerr]

Agreed. Too many get on the pastor for every little thing.

[lazarus]

From this I conclude that some Pastors need to be wrecked? Man, that sounds harsh, but it is true. God forbid that I cause the Pastor to stumble!!

Rest assured its happening. About 1500 a month they say.

[CoAspen]

Some feel more assured if they are the wreckers rather than the saviors....perhaps. This constant need to for correcting is bothersome. Every time I thank my pastor for his/her sermon I can see the relief on their face that it was not a complaint. They have told me the corrections far out number the thank you's.

[Naomi]

Rest assured its happening. About 1500 a month they say.

So Very sad!!!

That old serpent, the devil, is working hard. Hold fast to your faith ... In the end the devil looses all

[pierrepaul]

I am wondering yet again whether we are too dependent on our pastor. To those who are gaining much light from their personal devotion the weekly Sabbath sermon might not be as big a chunk of our spiritual nourishment.

Too many Christians mistake listening to a sermon for worship, and too many pastors and members alike see preaching as the primary duty of the pastor.

I have read books that have changed my life; I have heard music that changed my life; I have participated in bible studies that have changed my life. But by 3:00 Sabbath afternoon, I'd be hard pressed to remember what the morning sermon was about (this may be just me - even in school I never learned by listening to lectures, I had to read the lesson).

I can't help but wonder how many pastor-hours are wasted preparing speeches/sermons. How many needs went unmet because the pastor had to prepare a speech instead of ministering to a needy member? How many talented shepherds have been deemed unfit for the ministry because they lacked the gift of oratory? How many gifted orators have been drawn to the ministry though they lack any talents for ministering?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

It's not the "legalist" part I am trying to undo; it's the "raving" part. I don't think you are a "raving" legalist. We share a big chunk of common belief. I'm not comfortable with just the "warm fuzzy" stuff; I understand that the "Great Tribulation" is coming (if not already upon us); and it ain't gonna be a picnic.

When I say doctrine or dogma, I'm talking about conformance to a fixed set of denominational principles. I am responsible for defining and adhering to my relationship with God; not for adhering to the principles of Adventism. There is a HUGE overlap - that's why I still identify with Adventism. But even if I were a strict "fire and brimstone" kind of guy, I don't have a right to "rage" about my spiritual convictions at the expense of dissing someone else's. Does that make any sense?

Makes perfect sense to me. I'm satisfied much of the discord about how others are involved "doing their thing" has far more to do with the "pride of life or oneupmanship than it does with honest revelations of information,

whether it be the Truth as it is in Jesus or just personal opinion based upon the best intelligence one has, which leaves very little latitude for differences in thinking re: how one sees the importance of their own input of ideas.

Hope you'll have a look at the URL address placed in the new topics. I watched it for worship this morning and concluded it was probably one of the most important principles there is for growth in the Kingdom of God on earth.

God cares!