Sunday Churches Abandoned

[ClubV12]

As the Jews were abandoned of God following the crucifiction, so the Sunday keeping churches were abandoned of God when Christ moved into the Most Holy place in 1844.

SOME Jews, Christian Jews, survived, most did not. SOME Sunday keepers will convert to the true Sabbath, most will not.

"I saw that since Jesus had left the Holy place of the heavenly Sanctuary, and had entered within the second vail, the churches were left as were the Jews; and they have been filling up with every unclean and hateful bird. I saw great iniquity and vileness in the churches; yet they profess to be christians. Their profession, their prayers and their exhortations, are an abomination in the sight of God. Said the angel, God will not smell in their assemblies. Selfishness, fraud and deceit are practiced by them without the reprovings of conscience. And over all these evil traits they throw the cloak of religion. I was shown the pride of the nominal churches. God was not in their thoughts; but their carnal minds dwell upon themselves. They decorate their poor mortal bodies, and then look upon themselves with satisfaction and pleasure. Jesus and the angels looked upon them in anger. Said the angel, Their sins and pride have reached unto heaven. Their portion is prepared. Justice and judgment have slumbered long, but will soon awake. Vengeance is mine, and I will [bEGIN P.191] repay, saith the Lord. The fearful threatenings of the third angel are to be realized, and they will drink the wrath of God."

Spiritual Gifts, Volume 1 190

[ClubV12]

Considering the time frame, this would have applied specifically to Sunday keeping Churches. But as time moved forward and I note her use of the term "nominal Churches" it will also include SOME Seventh-day Adventist Churches. ANY and EVERY Church that has a form or Godliness but denying the power. She has much more to say about the Sunday keeping Churches, none of it good. They ARE doomed, people MUST come out if they will find salvation. Some, will come out, but they need to be warned in no uncertain terms! They are in grave danger. That IS the third angels message after all, our message.

We are told that some of our great lights (Adventist lights) will go out. That WHOLE Adventist Churches will be lost. It is not unreasonable to include Conferences or higher leadership in that proclamation. Sister White often used the term "nominal" to describe some Adventist communities and Churches.

Now, lets not get carried away, as some do, and declare the Seventh-day Adventist Church as a body of believers has been abandoned of God! It will remain until His return. There will be no other new group raised up to replace it. It WILL be battered, bruised, appear as about to fall, but in some capacity it will remain His chosen vessel.

[Kevin H]

Let's also keep in mind that Mrs. White when from believing the shut door into becoming a very popular speaker in Sunday Keeping Churches on Sunday mornings. Her sermons to them was not on the mark of the beast or the Sabbath or even the Sanctuary, but themes from her book "Steps to Christ" (which she had published by a popular non-Adventist Christian publishing house) and she talked about how much God loved them and on the health message. If your thesis is true, then was these later actions by Mrs. White wrong?

[Gibs]

OK, if we want to get critical and we must at this late date, have not all the church structures of men dipped deep into different apostasies?

Re 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Re 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

There is no doubt in my mind that SDAdventism came the furthest in reform and then at a point of 1888 and a little latter began to regress instead of further reformation.

Why? I would ask, and I must answer, it is because men are her head and men ordain in it who will preach and teach!

But there is one He is calling to come into! Yes dear ones, the one He built

Yes, He God built it and only God can build His Church and so He alone is it's Head.

He alone ordains the teachers and preachers in it. These do not weave in any error as He can see they have His Spirit of truth and will not veer from it.

This is why the gates of hell do not prevail against it!

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

No for sure it never was prevailed against as Jesus told us.

The church of Rome was a falling away and then all protesting movements were all tries of men at reform of which soon went into regression after started.

There was no need of any of this. All that was needed was to come and get back in the one and only True one, the one God built by His own designated builder Jesus Christ of whom the Father dwelt in, in ALL fullness!

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

1888, some say 1901, others cite different reasons why the Adventist Church is no longer favored of God. Theres a 1,000 good excuses for someone to leave the Church, oppose it, call it Babylon, fight against it. All usually done with the highest spiritual appearance. Any correction or reproof offered serves only to affirm that they are being persecuted for their faith and drives them even deeper into delusion.

I deal with these kinds of people every Sabbath and more often in my little Church. The woods around here are filled with home Churches, none of whom share the same views on the issues. All of them fighting against each other, united only by their "love" (more like hate) for the "lost sheep of Israel". It is often asked WHY these people even come to our Church? To hand out literature, or trash talk the Church IN the Church, or the parking lot. They especially tune in to any new visitors or new Adventists. Sometimes I would wish they would just leave our Church alone, but mostly I just wish they would leave.

They come to the Church because they don't have a world vision, they are unable to do the mission we are called to do. Reach the WORLD with the three angels message.

But then I began to see something. These conflicts and controversies are driving some members to dig deeper into the doctrine. They are discovering the real truth for themselves, flourishing in an apparent negative environment. Others are being drawn deeper into apostasy and talk of also removing their membership. Most just ignore either side.

It has become obvious there are two distinct groups at work. One is binding themselves in bundles for the Saviour, the other to be burned.

God is not going to allow the Seventh-day Adventist Church to apostize to the point where a new group will have to be raised up. THIS group is it, as defective as it is, it remains Gods chosen vessel, a royal priesthood, His Church on earth. It will survive, it will go forward.

...save me the rhetoric on why the Church has fallen, I hear it every Sabbath. I know fully the arguments, and thats all they are, "arguments".

[Gibs]

If you won't hear me ClubV12, I would advise you to hear Him Who did build the one and only Church that did not fall.

Why be in any other? Not for me, His is the one not fallen to the gates of Hell!

It is not of the world and not incorporated either of it and cannot be.

I could go over all the apostasies but you know them, they have come in and not rescinded.

The true gospel saved from sinning and the only way that is come by and not galling is lacking in all around me here.

Instead, the preaching has been in them around here, none can put away all sin.

Christ in you and you cannot is a lie. Christ in you and you can walk as He did!

Oh yes, because,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

You know one of the biggest problems with people who leave the Church and then fight against it is the "timing" of their doctrine.

Most tie it to 1888 or early 1900's with their well rehearsed false doctrine of apostasy.

The Church was officially recognized in 1863. So this means it went into "apostasy" in like less than three decades. Jesus worked with the Jewish nation for a couple of thousand years. Then another 1500 to 2000 for the Christian Churches need to be overhauled.

This idea that in 30 years God would abandon what He had just started is a serious insult to His throne. It defies the logic of a merciful and patient God. This time frame isn't even within the life span of man!!! It's utterly ridiculous logic, especially when you consider the Lord asks us to come "reason together" and "here is the patience of the Saints".

Our institutions ARE a mess! Many of our Churches are a mess. Our schools are a mess. As a people we have fallen far short of the "blue print". So did the Jews, so did the Christian Churches that followed the early Church. This is to be expected as we KNOW "most", truly, MOST, Seventh-day Adventists will be shaken out. Thats reality. Those who RIGHT NOW are questioning leadership, pointing out all the errors and faults of the Church will in due time, join with those who have already left! In turn, they too will attack and fight against the Church.

The more apostasy I see IN the Church, the more determined I become to stand for the truth. To be one of the 7,000 who have not bowed the knee to the idol of those fighting against Gods remnant people. To love my enemies (I have a long way to go on that last point, but God is teaching me).

[Gibs]

Still the fact remains that one and only one has not fallen to the gates of Hell!

It is the one built upon Himself, no need ever existed for another and I am afraid that it is the very few who are in it.

Jesus said it would not fall, apostatize, and it has not!

The whole of the problem lies in the fact that if any error is weaved in the meeting together intended to be church, IT IS NOT CHURCH! For the simple reason He must be worshipped in Spirit and in truth and will not be present in the midst thereof if not.

Without His Presence in it you do not have Church, only a gathering of the teaching of men.

8 saved in Noah's day, how many this time and the last round up? Few and very few again!.

The way is through a very narrow strait gate and the way narrow. It isn't stated that it is hard, but narrow.

So what makes it so narrow? The answer is of course the Way made must be followed precisely!

The last time any were in Church when the total of the teaching was the total truth and He could then be Present in it.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

You know that quote that people who have left the organized Church love the most? "The Church is not a cathedral, it's where one or two are gathered, etc, THAT is the Church". That Church worships in spirit and truth, etc.

That is the quote I hear most often by those who fight against Gods organized Church. The Church my neighbor see's me going to on Saturady morning. The one she and the world think of when someone says, "Seventh-day Adventist". The one supporting missionary work world wide. That is the Church Ellen White refers to as the visible Church. The same one, she says, we should pay our tithe too, be a member of, work with, honor and uphold. That same Church with publishing houses, schools, hospitals, Universities. Gods visible Church she calls it, organized for service.

She recognizes there is another Church, it has existed since Adam, who was the first member. Gods hidden Church is comprised of all the "wheat", all the Saints who have ever lived. It does not have any tares and never will.

How is it, Gibs, you can identify the wheat from the tares? The prophets instructions are clear on this point, NO MAN can. It is not given to you or anybody to know who is and who isnt a member of Gods hidden Church. He has only ONE Church that is the supreme object of His affection, His visible Church on earth. That organized body of believers known as Seventh-day Adventists.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Jesus said it would not fall, apostatize, and it has not!

And that is true no matter that the tares and the wheat remain together.

How can I tell whether I am a tare or a wheat.

"The thief doth not come, except that he may steal, and kill, and destroy; I (Jesus) came that they may have life, and may have [it] abundantly."John 10:10 YLT brackets their's parenthesis mine LHC

How does your life align with that? It is the common characteristic of mankind to exploit their neighbor for one's own benefit. You are able to look into your own heart with the aid of the Holy Spirit, and you will be able to tell whose/Whose side you're on.

God cares!

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

I don't concern myself with who are the wheat and the tares. That is for the one and only one who can rightly judge.

He does not leave His Church to be invisible, He introduced it well and it went for aprox. 300 years before the church structure of Rome broke out. No it don't have a worldly name, it is only called by Him "My Church!"

It is just very easy to see that Christendom has only unity and harmony in little groups of one belief or another but no real unity with Him in the truth and so no Unity of believers in the truth.

When He tells us this,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into "ALL" truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

All church structures of the world, men are the head and men do the ordaining in them of ones programed in their schools. Just take a good look at some of the teachings coming out of them!

We do have one not of men, but of God Himself. Stop and think about it, can anyone build God His Church other than Himself. The answer is an absolute no!

There is a lot of talk about how the worldly church structures are evangelizing the world with the good news of the gospel.

But is that true? What kind of gospel? A false gospel or the True Gospel. Most in the church structures of men today hold to the false gospel of men and not of God.

Why? Why is because that is the gospel being taught by them all! So what is the evangelizing gospel going out?

The true teachers today of God's Holy Word and the Way of salvation are about as scarce "as hens teeth."

The last call and witness will not go out from the denominational church structures of this world.

It will go out by those ordained of God gone through His school as many of the prophets of old were, as EGW for that matter, and with power from on high and the true gospel will be sounded into all corners!

Each one of these will have around 50 to 60,000 to reach.

Men are now putting too far in the future the coming of Christ and ending this horrible reign of sin!

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

And take note!,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

LifeHiscost, a post worthy of consideration. Who the wheat and tares are we cannot know. But we can search our own soul in that regard.

The Church, while it cannot determine wheat and tares still has a charge to deal with open sin, which is a different issue.

Those who have left the Church and in turn fight against it, are in fact in open sin. Many have been disfellowshiped, as is proper. Many instead of seeing the error of their ways in that regard, like Pharoah, it has only hardened their heart. Still, I hold out hope for even this group! I personally know some who have been deeply involved, even leaders in, movements fighting against the organized Church. Who have repented and found their way home! It is rare, but it can happen. This is an exceptionally powerful delusion from which few escape.

Gibs, I would recommend to you that you begin a serious study on how you can reconcile the many statements of Ellen White concerning the "visible", organized, structured Church, led by the General Conference with a home Church independant from that body.

Home Churches are a wonderful and needed alternative for many. In my area some folks live quite far away from a traditional Church. They have a home Church, some I have visited. They have the neighbors over. When possible, if they have enough gas money, they come to a regular Church. Not all home Churches have removed themselves from the body!!! Praise God for that and a blessing on their house and the struggles they face.

As for those who have removed themselves from the body, I cannot offer a blessing of any kind. As the dicisples were instructed to withold their blessing in certain cases. Lest it be seen as condoning error or improper behaviour.

[Gibs]

The problem is ClubV12 of who the organizer of it is and who is heading it up and doing the ordaining in it.

Christ done this many centuries before SDAdventism and He alone is the Head, Organizer and the sole one who does the ordaining in it.

The big one is this, It did not ever fall to the gates of hell. So no need of men trying to build God a church when that is impossible.

None else could do this but Him and be His Church. It is anywhere that 2 or 3 are present worshipping Him in Spirit and in truth and He is in the midst thereof.

One can even Join in by Spirit in a lonely prison cell and I know some of us will experience that.

Yes SDAdventism was a reform movement from the church of Rome the same as the ones before and did get the furthest but has fell because of incoming apostasies.

All alike sinners and the true ones are welcomed into the service of His True Church but the teaching is of necessity the truth or it is not His Church. What good is it to a sinner come in to learn, to not be taught the truth?

Men fight like tigers for their particular denominational church structure when they need to be just as dedicated to the fact that the Truth must be taught.

Men want to determine what is truth as Satan did and accused God. But God only is the Truth, the Way and the Life.

Man must have His Spirit of Truth to come to a knowledge of it as it is in Him and His Word!

The Spirit of truth is the Comforter.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Men fight like tigers for their particular denominational church structure when they need to be just as dedicated to the fact that the Truth must be taught.

Most Christians see the book of Revelation as the book of end times And this seems to take a place in identifying the last church existing before Jesus returns. It certainly helps to recognize Jesus' followers.

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Rev 14:9-13 KJV

God cares!

[Gibs]

It looks as though from these two verses we can know for sure,

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

And here He came and did that,

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

His people are His Body, His Bride, His Church and the temple of the living God.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.