Jesus Ascended same day He arose

[ClubV12]

I thought this was interesting. Jesus would not allow Mary to touch Him because He had not yet ascended. Shortly afterward He did ascend to be assured by His Father that His sacrafice was acceptable. He then returned to earth (where He stayed for forty days). He then ascended a final time with those who had risen from their graves with Him.

The time frame: He rose early Sunday morning, greeted Mary, and it is not until late Sunday evening there is a record of His appearing to man again. He was gone for most of the day, meeting with His Father in Heaven. What a joyous occasion that was!

From Desire of Ages.

"Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people (Mary) until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory."

DofA pg 792

[Gail]

Yep!

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

A good one to bring up and we all should know what the consequences are if He had of failed. It was a great victory and surely Heaven rang with praise and adoration and should we not, the benefactors?

EGW really lays out some important thoughts of this and will post this piece,

I would like to emphasize some thoughts but will refrain and allow you the reader to do your own!

"Christ they could look forward to victory. The mystery of the gospel was spoken in Eden when God said to the serpent: "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." If Satan could have touched the Head with his specious temptations, the human family would be lost; but the Lord had made known the purpose and plan of the mystery of grace, declaring that Christ should bruise the serpent under his feet. {BEcho, July 15, 1893 par. 1}

Not only had man come under the power of the deceiver, but the earth itself, the dominion of man, was usurped by the enemy. Through the plan of salvation, through the sacrifice of Christ, not only man, but his dominion, was to be redeemed. Because of the merits of Christ, all that man lost through sin was to be restored. The time would come when there should be no more curse, but the throne of God should be in the earth renewed, and his servants should serve Him. The promise would be fulfilled, "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever." {BEcho, July 15, 1893 par. 2}

Through the plan of salvation, a larger purpose is to be wrought out even than the salvation of man and the redemption of the earth. Through the revelation of the character of God in Christ, the beneficence of the divine government will be manifested before the universe, the charge of Satan against God refuted, the nature and result of sin made plain, and the perpetuity of the law fully demonstrated. Satan had declared that the law of God was faulty, and that the good of the universe demanded a change in its requirements. In attacking the law, he thought to overthrow the authority of its Author, and gain for himself the supreme allegiance. But through the plan of salvation, the precepts of the law were to be proved perfect and immutable, that at last one tide of glory and love might go up throughout the universe, ascribing glory and honour and praise to Him that sitteth upon the throne, and to the Lamb forever and ever. {BEcho, July 15, 1893 par. 3}

The inhabitants of all worlds will be convinced of the justice of the law in the overthrow of rebellion and the eradication of sin. When man, beguiled by Satan's power, disobeyed the divine law, God could not, even to save the lost race, change that law. God is love, and to change the law would be to deny Himself, to overthrow those principles with which are bound up the good of the universe. The working out of the plan of salvation reveals not only to men, but to angels, the character of God, and through the ages of eternity the malignant character of sin will be understood by the cost to the Father and the Son of the redemption of a rebel race. In Christ, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, all worlds will behold the marks of the curse, and angels as well as men will ascribe honour and glory to the Redeemer, through whom they are all made secure from apostasy. The efficiency of the cross guards the redeemed race from the danger of a second fall. The life and death of Christ effectually unveils the deceptions of Satan, and refutes his claims. The sacrifice of Christ for a fallen world draws not only men, but angels, unto Him in bonds of indissoluble union." {BEcho, July 15, 1893 par. 4}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Windsor]

I thought this was interesting. Jesus would not allow Mary to touch Him because He had not yet ascended. Shortly afterward He did ascend to be assured by His Father that His sacrafice was acceptable. He then returned to earth (where He stayed for forty days). He then ascended a final time with those who had risen from their graves with Him.

The time frame: He rose early Sunday morning, greeted Mary, and it is not until late Sunday evening there is a record of His appearing to man again. He was gone for most of the day, meeting with His Father in Heaven. What a joyous occasion that was!

From Desire of Ages.

"Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people (Mary) until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory."

DofA pg 792

I've heard it said that a better translation than "touch" is "cling". Rather than fearing human contact, Jesus needed to ascend to the Father which is hard to do when someone is holding onto You.

[ClubV12]

I was searching for more thoughts on this subject, what various bible commentators had to say. It seems to be quite the controversy. John Calvin, of the 1500's, even commented on what it might mean. Cling, detain, both of those words are used. I'm still a little fuzzy as to why Jesus forbade her to touch Him. Some see the positive command to go and tell His followers He had risen, with much less emphasis on the "don't touch" aspect of it all. I like that thought.

For those of us who trust the inspired testimony of Ellen White, it opens such a window of understanding on this and so many other issues. God is so good to us, He longs to hold a conversation with us as He reveals more about His universe, creation, details of this and that. Wonderful!

As to those who feel compelled to place His ascension in the Holy or Most Holy place immediately upon His arrival, I think we make to much of it; in this regard. Jesus went to meet with His Father, who's throne IS the "Most Holy" place, at least twice as I see it. Once immediately after His arising from the tomb, and once again when He ascended after forty day. Where ever the Father is, THAT is the "Most Holy" place. Anyway, He meets with His Father, they hug, converse, talk things over, then He goes to work, in the Holy Place. I believe He is free to visit His Father, where ever that may be at any given time, as the need arises, as time passes. His WORK was in the Holy Place and now it's in the Most Holy place.

Perhaps His exact location is fixed in certain times frames? like from 1844 until He returns, limited strictly to the Most Holy place (the immediate presence of the Father). But I don't have a problem with Him, or the Father, "moving around" as the need may or may not arise during any given time frame. But I could be wrong...

[ClubV12]

Some say,,, those who arose with Him from the grave and ascended with Him forty days later, are the 24 Elders. Annointed as Priests, as were the sons of Aaron. To work in the sanctuary (what ever the nature of that work may be).

I tend to shy away from things that may be considered to controversial when they are not a required subject pertaining to salvation. But I do like to engage my sanctified imagination from time to time. :)

[thx4mercy]

Some say,,, those who arose with Him from the grave and ascended with Him forty days later, are the 24 Elders.

Recently heard a sermon by Stephen Bohr who suggested the 24 elders were rulers from the other worlds. ???

[ClubV12]

Well thats one I haven't heard before!

While I don't agree with everything Bohr says, I have immenese respect for him and thank God for providing this servant to us.

This reminds me a little of the discussions concerning who the 144,000 are. I like to study the attributes and characters of those who will make up that group. But I shy away from getting to technical on exactly who they are. A debate that won't be settled any time soon. James Rafferty wrote a book on that group being a symbolic number. Others are adamant about it being a literal number. I won't engage, I just want to be like them, who ever they are.

[Windsor]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

Some say,,, those who arose with Him from the grave and ascended with Him forty days later, are the 24 Elders.

Recently heard a sermon by Stephen Bohr who suggested the 24 elders were rulers from the other worlds. ???

I've heard that same thing recently but from someone else. He believes there are 25 worlds inhabited by intelligent beings, the so called sons of God as per the book of Job. There are only 24 elders right now because Adam is missing. It was a long study based on the Bible and Ellen White. Not sure at the moment where my notes are. Let it be known this study was for "fun" as no one considered it salvational.

[ClubV12]

Eh eh,,, I think I'll pass on doing a "long study" based on the bible and Ellen White writings on such an issue. I have a pretty full plate already.

But I do realize that being young in the faith, a lot of folks have several decades of study ahead of me, so gimme some time to catch up. I'm peddaling as fast as I can. :)

[Ted Oplinger]

I've heard it said that a better translation than "touch" is "cling". Rather than fearing human contact, Jesus needed to ascend to the Father which is hard to do when someone is holding onto You.

Another perspective - Jesus did not want to give Mary even the possibility for clinging to Him in hope, until He was certain everything was satisfied in the Father's sight. Such love on display, to ensure we who would cling to Him have an absolutely solid Hope to cling to!

Food for thought...

[Gustave]

I thought this was interesting. Jesus would not allow Mary to touch Him because He had not yet ascended. Shortly afterward He did ascend to be assured by His Father that His sacrafice was acceptable. He then returned to earth (where He stayed for forty days). He then ascended a final time with those who had risen from their graves with Him.

The time frame: He rose early Sunday morning, greeted Mary, and it is not until late Sunday evening there is a record of His appearing to man again. He was gone for most of the day, meeting with His Father in Heaven. What a joyous occasion that was!

From Desire of Ages.

"Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people (Mary) until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory."

DofA pg 792

Is that Ellen White teaching where you get that Jesus needed to be "assured by His Father" that "His sacrifice was acceptable"????

[ClubV12]

Ted I appreciate your thought that Jesus wanted to be absolutely sure His sacrafice was acceptable. So that Mary and the rest of the Saints can have that absolute assurance. I am reminded that mans words, if of any value, echo the words of God.

It's a bit of a strange concept in that once He arose, He was verily God and He must have known the outcome. In faith, if nothing else!

But here we also see an example of how all of heaven is run in a very organized and orderly manner with no one, not even Jesus, "presuming" anything without a direct blessing from the Father.

What a servant our Lord and Master is, so humble, so unassuming.

"Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people (Mary) until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father." Desire of Ages

[ClubV12]

Jesus does not presume anything, He went personally to the Father for confirmation.

Jesus did not need to personally go to Sodom to verify the details of sin and impending destruction. But He did. He went as an example to all those watching, that everything will be done in order and "by the book". He does this for our sake, not for His.

If you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father. Regardless of what the outcome might have been, the Father would not have left Jesus in the grave without a careful review. Anymore than Jesus would presume to enter upon His work without assurance from the Father that it was time to do so.

They are One, in thought, in plans, in actions, their bond beyond our feeble comprehension.

[ClubV12]

The Father is indeed with us every step of the way. Through His Spirit, through His Son, through the presence of His Holy angels.

But the Father also is present in His throne room. As Ellen White noted, she saw His presence actually rise from the throne when He stood up. She speaks of a tender embrace between the Father and the Son. She speaks of how they clasped their hands in solem agreement concerning the plan of salvation. Moses was in the very presence of God on the mountain, all though it could be said, God never left him for a moment. Some very special angels dwell in the immediate presence of God. The four living creatures at His throne continually praise Him. He is with every heavenly being, and yet, the descend and ascend between heaven and earth. They go here, or there, as they work may demand. Gabriel left heaven to come to earth to speak directly to Daniel.

Jesus left earth to come into the immediate presence of His Father. To be welcomed as a Son returning from the war, victorius. What a reunion that was! The Father reaching out to His Son, personally.

How is all this possible? Who can know the mind of God? Some things He has not revealed to man and it is foolish to think we can find them out.

[Green Cochoa]

Well thats one I haven't heard before!

While I don't agree with everything Bohr says, I have immenese respect for him and thank God for providing this servant to us.

This reminds me a little of the discussions concerning who the 144,000 are. I like to study the attributes and characters of those who will make up that group. But I shy away from getting to technical on exactly who they are. A debate that won't be settled any time soon. James Rafferty wrote a book on that group being a symbolic number. Others are adamant about it being a literal number. I won't engage, I just want to be like them, who ever they are.

My personal belief, based on my understanding of the composition of the 144,000, is that it may well be a literal number. I do not make a controversy over it, however. But here's the catch: I believe that some may be saved from this present generation who are NOT part of the 144,000 and some may be saved from generations past who ARE, including, I believe, Enoch.

It helps to study the character of the 144,000 carefully from both the Bible and the writings of Mrs. White. They are "undefiled," and have kept the commandments of Jesus, showing His character perfectly to the world. Many who will be saved have never passed through this experience, and in Heaven, throughout all eternity, there is a special place where only the 144,000 may enter.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[ClubV12]

Heaven is a real place, physically. There is a real sanctuary, a real throne of God. Heaven in the sense of it's head quarters, the city of God, the throne of God, will literally, physically come to this earth at the final cleansing. Until then, it remains where it is, which is NOT here on earth.

144,000, literal? I suspect so. What we DO know. All those who have died under the three angels message AND have kept the Sabbath will be in a special resurrection BEFORE Jesus returns. I believe at least some of them, possibly not all, will qualify for inclusion with the 144,000. Assuming the number, the count is literal, does the count include women and children or only men of age? Only the men were counted in the bible times. If the count is 144,000 men of age, then the number could be tripled when including women and children. The special resurrection, I believe, will take place at the beginning of the seventh plague. Those raised will personally see the devastation of the first six and personally experience the seventh. Thus, qualifying for inclusion with the 144K.

How long are the plagues? About two months per plague, lasting over one year.

[ClubV12]

While I'm sure we have many difference in our opinions Gerhard, your post reminds of what the pioneers did.

As much as possible they attempted to make of no concern their minor differences, in favor of pressing together.

Now obviously that does not mean they did not address direct challenges to the fundamental doctrines that would move a foundation or pillar of our core beliefs. But they took no pleasure in doing so. Ellen White was loath to even speak of such attacks until it became clear to her that the crisis would not pass. At times she was specifically told by an angel to "meet it". To engage in the conflict. At other times, she wisely kept quiet and refused to engage on any level. Even telling others to NOT drag her into it, just STOP using her words or testimonies to support their position, whatever it may be. She would have no part in an argument just for the sake of arguing.

[Gibs]

Gerhard, what one must stay away from is the teaching of men, theologians etc. They theorize the word and we don't want that and sure don't need it!

What we need is the greatest teacher of all and He has promised to come to us and He has to ALL who will receive Him.

He is the Comforter, the wonderful Spirit of truth, listen to His promise in just this one verse,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

He has not only promised to guide into "ALL" but also He will show you things to come! His prophecy is opened to the receiver!

So what need have we to listen to the twisting of so called learned men in the schools of men?

"NONE!"

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

The problem with that, Gibs, is that no scripture is of private interpretation. Therefore, consultation among the brethren is not only expected, it's REQUIRED by the word itself.

We NEED to consult with the brethren to correctly understand scripture. Not all minds are alike, you or I may see a different facet of the gem of truth under consideration.

Now the problem is: WHO are the brethren you will chose to consult with? For you are forbidden by the book itself to come to your own private interpretation!

You WILL consult with someone. A commentary, a concordance, a dictionary perhaps, the spirit of prophecy, but beyond these you MUST consult also with the brethren.

[Gibs]

ClubV12, I solidly disagree that I am to let any of men be my guide in the things pertaining to what the Word states to me.

The one and only Teacher I care to hear and will hear is the one and same Spirit by which that Word was given by.

No it sure is not of any private interpretation so it must be by the Spirit that the Word is given by.

Now if I listened to men, yes we would have a private interpretation by those men and then of myself if I agreed and it was in error, and by men that liability is great! Men are great with theology and theology is theorizing! I take no part in it nor will hear of it!

I do consult with one that is not a theologian and that is EGW. Her writings are the best commentary out there on the Holy Word.

The first book I read of hers was Early Writings and didn't get far in that book and knew of what Spirit she was of. The Spirit of the Comforter, the Spirit of truth that Jesus promised us He would guide us into all truth. What need have I of any other?

There is perfect Unity and Harmony of us with Him and among the number who do have His Spirit of Truth for their sole guide!

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Notice of that verse where Jesus Christ tells us to go.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.