Valerie Plame, Judith Miller, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Karl Rove

[bevin]

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No doubt that appears clever to you. Like the rest of the leftist canon, it amounts to an absence of something-- responsibility.

Cheap. easy. meaningless.

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The weapons inspections were not cheap, easy, or meaningless.

They were doing a difficult job well, and Bush denigrated them. Then it was proven that they were correct, and Bush had lied about how certain his evidence was...

So far Bush's stupidity has cost approximately 100,000 Iraqi lives, 2,000 US lives, and hundreds of billions of dollars that could have been much better spent. Much of this money has been to companies owned and managed by his cronies.

Bush is in charge, let the looting continue.

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Lying involves intent. It has never been proven that President Bush "lied". And last I checked, stupid people don't get through Yale or Harverd business school.

[jasd]

>>There were 3 different varied sources that checked out the situation. All three agreed that there was NO evidence of a purchase of the Yellowcake.<<

The State of the Union did not allege that Iraq had purchased yellowcake; the assertion was

“…Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” –Dubya, quoting Brit intel. [ed.] Per…:

“The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein…”

(which same intel the British Government still, today, stands by)

There is an marked distinction between purchase and sought.

>>…that btw, was traced back to the whitehouse via Italian sources.<< [ed.]

“Friday 28 October 2005

Washington - A two-year inquiry by the Federal Bureau of Investigation has yet to uncover the origin of forged documents that formed a basis for sending an envoy on a fact-finding trip to Niger, a mission that eventually exploded into the CIA leak inquiry, law enforcement and intelligence officials say.”

Whitehouse!? wondering… if the above Washington dateline refers to the same documents as those “via Italian sources”?

>>If Wilson had not gone public,…<<

Umm, that’s the problem, Wilson went public every which way -- a real wallbanger.

>>…reports that said NO purchase was made,…<<

Note above: No reference made in State of Union to sales or purchases.

>>…to establishing a credible threat.<<

A credible threat, if needed, already existed -- with or without yellowcake. (check the ‘rithmetic on still-missing poison gasses)

>>…no arrangements for sale.<< [ed.]

There’s that strawman, again.

>>"Iraq was purchasing yellowcake"<< [ed.]

And again…

>>If Iraq had enough yellowcake to make atom bombs, [and it was stored properly according to Weapons Inspectors and can be refined into enrich uranium currently], why does Iraq need to go get some more????<<

They couldn’t have very well ‘disappeared’ yellowcake already tagged by the UN inspecting teams…, how smart would that have been?

>>…espeically since they have not the know how nor the equipment to manufacture weapons grade uranium????<<

Like, they couldn’t have found willing accomplices, who’d already proven themselves? Umm, France and Russia comes readily to mind; oh yeah, they’s too high-minded and moral to have their palms greased by the likes of Saddam!? (read: post below, pertaining to Saddam’s ability to hire those experienced in nuclear bomb manufacture)

>>…Iraq, not needing to purchase yellowcake, suddenly feeling the need to purchase yellowcake...<<

Hey, it only takes 6 tons of raw ore to make the basic nuclear bomb. One ten-yard dump truck will haul 26,000 lbs of aggregate material… what’s the numbers? lemme see, 6 tons equals 12,000 lbs, yes? Is the transshipment of a couple of truckloads of ore from/to Democratic Republic of Congo, Somalia, Kenya[:"red"]*[/], or elsewhere -- feasible?

[:"red"]*[/]All three lit up on the radar of CIA analysts, with Kenya’s little light provided by Saddam’s very own Intel archives.

>>…and 3 independent sources saying it didn't happen…<<

and if Joe Wilson is an independent source…, so much for indies.

>>...And a Select Senate committee saying those reports only verify that 'Iraq is seeking to restore it's nuclear weapons program'. Something is not right in the SSCI...<<

Or, one might say that something is not right with those politicos and national media types that prefer to grind political axes…, or, as Laura Ingalls’ Pa put it, “Common ‘taters on the axe.”

>>A way to sell war to the American public.<<

Nobody had to sell war to the American public; we’s was ready! READY! So much so that we’s was itching for France to give us a good reason to take out the Eiffel tower, and set up HQ in the Louvre, and… [kidding ]

>>Joe Wilson did this country a favor by blowing the whistle…<<

I think a little more factualness on his part may have stood him, and us, better.

>>…the adminstration cavilar attitude was "Let's frighten him. Out his CIA wife."<<

Boo! happy halloween

>>But definately, at the time that Bush said those 16 words in his SOTU address, they WERE BOGUS.<<

Without devolving into a he said-she said post-riposte -- what I find BOGUS is that which (and its ready acceptance by the willing) the yellow cur dogs in the national media seized upon to construct the frantic jimjam “Bush lied! Bush lied! Bush lie! nya-nya-nya...” when, in fact, there did not even exist whole cloth from which to construct the “Bush lied” jimjam; zip-zed, zilch-zero, nil-naught, nada-nothing…

Following… the ‘infamous’ sixteen-word nexus:

“The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa .” —Dubya, State of the Union

In view of the fact that British Intel, relying upon sources other than that which seems to have conflicted our very own CIA, still today, stands by the “Saddam … sought …” statement, I advance the notion that it is only

the ‘True Believer’ who can extract a “Bush lied…” jimjam from those particular sixteen words.

And, as I recall, it was Tenet who ‘fessed and tendered his resignation. Was he, by character, so compliantly altruistic? or was it true love for the Bush administration that compelled him to fall upon his own sword? or was

it an ‘out’ -- graciously supplied by an administration having the ‘goods’ on him? (who in bloody ‘H’ is Wilson? who sent him? he got into the CIA telepod!) You know,

retire in good grace or have your career and reputation bloody publicly disemboweled…

[jasd]

Well, let us see how the opinionated, prejudiced, and venerable old lady BBC weighs in on the matter…

“Wednesday, 13 November, 2002, 08:59 GMT

Should Iraq accept weapons inspectors?

Iraq's parliament has voted unanimously to reject a UN resolution requiring the return of weapons inspectors, but has left the final decision to President Saddam Hussein."

You mean, Saddam had a choice? And if the “weapons inspectors” would be returning…, where had they been in the meantime? So, this assumes Saddam was trusted to behave himself … by the international community? Guess that means, my daughter would have been safe with the guy…? [/jasd]

“The vote against the resolution came despite apparent efforts to achieve a 'yes' vote by the Iraqi leader's son Uday, and after an unexpected warning from France that a rejection of the inspections would mean war.

…”

Uday!? France!? war!? meaning it’s okay for France to calumniate war with Iraq? but America is not allowed to plead -- perceived threat? No? no wonder I don’t watch SNL; it’s too confounding.

Given, that the UN inspection teams had a hard row of it -- didn’t change the fact that Saddam was playing them like a three-dollar fiddle -- as any slick hustler would, here stateside, play hayseeds from beyond the boroughs with sure things as three-card monte, thimble-rig, or any other now-you-sees-it-now-yous-don’t street hustle.

Oh, what did this resolution address? [/ ]

“Saddam Hussein has until Friday to make up his mind on the resolution, which demands Iraq submit a detailed list of its arms and allow inspectors complete access to all suspected weapons' sites”

I still hear the echoes… ddddd-dat’s all folks! ain’t even got powder left for an IED/roadside bomb… [/ ]

Following from Tech Central…:

“It would be one thing if we had never caught Iraq lying about dual-use technology before. Unfortunately, the UN is uncomfortably familiar at playing Saddam's fool. During the 1991-1998 inspections the IAEA accepted at face value a claim that Iraq used giant magnets for maintenance at its power stations. It was only because of information provided by a defector - in this case Ibrahim Bawi - that the UN learned the magnets were intended to enrich uranium. Likewise, in 1998 Saddam found an unorthodox use for lithotripters, a medical machine used for smashing kidney stones. He converted them into a nuclear trigger.”

Gotta give the guy his due, he’s got brass… or a very bad case of kidney stones [/ ]

“Khidir Hamza, former head of Iraq's Atomic Energy department, calls the employment of experienced foreigners the "X factor" of Iraq's weapons program. In his book Saddam's Bombmaker Hamza wrote that Iraq's clandestine nuclear bomb program, "at its peak in 1993-1994, employed more than 2000 engineers." Hamza defected in 1994, meaning that when he left the secret program was running as strong as ever, and that's despite UN inspectors who had been in the country for three years. [ed.]

Hamza states further that Iraq had three hundred PhDs and 800 master's degrees working on Iraq's WMD. Combined, a total 12,000-employee Atomic Energy department, from scientists to technicians, was twice the size of the U.S. Argonne National Laboratory.

Before he left Iraq, Hamza actually created a working model for an atomic bomb. The only thing missing was the enriched uranium, which is why discovering any high-strength aluminum tubing ordered by Iraq should always be treated as a worst-case scenario.

Iraq has lied both about the strength of explosive lenses, otherwise known as a shaped charge, and possession of three hundred tons of HMX, an explosive used to make a nuclear implosion. Hamza says Iraq still hides the HMX in various military camps around the country. They know with ease when an inspection approaches.

Hamza's bomb was so good that bridge-wire explosives used to trigger the lens explosives were better than those in the U.S. Manhattan Project. Utilizing technological expertise from Poland, Hamza's team was able to simultaneously detonate all lenses in 0.1 microseconds. …”

"Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance, not even today, of the disarmament which was demanded of it and which it needs to carry out to win the confidence of the world and to live in peace."

-- Hans Blix to the UN Security Council, January 28, 2003

Dubya gave his State of the Union speech January 28,’03.

[lazarus]

Shane said:

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President Bush is a known macro-manager.

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I must say that the thought of Bush having a management style is very amusing.

I have honestly had the impression that Bush has only the minimal grasp of what is happening in his government, just enough to get him through an interview or press conference.

[Dr. Shane]

He has an MBA from Harverd business school. They don't give those away. Wealth and previlidge help one to get in but it takes intelligence to get through.

What I don't understand is why so many that claim to be Christians are so quick to redicule another. Perhaps that is part of the problem with our churches too. Why are we so quick to criticise our brother when he disagrees with us? Is this a form of conceit?

[Neil D]

[:"green"] Of course, the real tragedy behind all these lies and cover-ups is not so much the leaking of classified information, although that's pretty bad. As the president's own father rightly remarked in 1999, ''I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the names of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors.''

The greater tragedy by far is the undeniable conclusion that this grave and costly war was founded on pure deception. That is, this war has not only been waged against human beings, but truth and democracy as well.

As a result of all these cover-ups and lies, more than 2,000 American soldiers have lost their lives and more than 15,000 have been seriously wounded. Some 30,000 Iraqi civilians have also been killed, although the British medical journal The Lancet reported in October 2004 that the war in Iraq had already caused 100,000 ''excess deaths.''

Do the math; connect the dots; then ask yourself what punishment might actually befit those who lied in order to produce numbers like these. [/]

This reflects my views pretty well...Couldn't have said it better than that... indian country

[Neil D]

Sources of Confusion

The Plame drama thickens, as Washington once again tries to guess who Bob Woodward's been talking to.

Newsweek article

[Debberzz]

There are two things about this whole matter that still bother me a great deal (aside from the national security aspect).

One is that Judith Miller went to jail over a story she never even wrote.

The other is that the hoopla over the very colorful Saddam Hussein has overshadowed a less colorful, but no less dangerous, Osama bin Laden. I doubt that Saddam Hussein ever had a network of truly worldwide followers. I'm not so certain that's the case with Osama bi Laden. I have a feeling we haven't seen nearly the last of his influence on

the most radical Muslim believers. :2cents:

[Dr. Shane]

I am just waiting to see what happens. I trust the justice system to get to the truth. Partisan politics make a lot of noise but over time the justice system will get to the bottem of it.