Same-Sex Marriage Advocates File Lawsuits Challenging Utah and Michigan Laws

[phkrause]

Earlier this year, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the merits of California’s state constitutional amendment that barred same-sex marriage in Hollingsworth v. Perry because a private party could not step into the shoes of the state government of California which had refused to appeal the lower court’s decision. While this allowed lower court opinions overturning Prop 8 to stand, opening the door for same-sex marriage in California, it set no national precedent.

http://religiousliberty.tv/sex-marriage-advocates-file-lawsuits-challenging-utah-michigan-laws.html

[olger]

I'm not a big fan of all this gay stuff..

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think time will treat the gay marriage issue well. It has been a hot topic for the past few years mostly because of the Hollywood liberals that got behind it. However I suspect we will find that divorce rates among gay couples will be high as well as abuse issues. Once the novelty of the political issue wears off, most people will probably go back to viewing gays in the same way they view alcoholics and other groups with obsessive/compulsive disorders.

I am also one that believes gay marriage is a fulfillment of prophecy that in the end days there would be marrying and giving in marriage. Lots of marriage going on. Polygamy will be the next to be made legal. Hopefully pedophilia and incest are never made legal but who really knows how far down the scale the antediluvian society went?

[olger]

According to the NYT - Polyamory is the next big thing.

[phkrause]

Interesting thoughts Shane

[scott.t]

I don't think time will treat the gay marriage issue well. It has been a hot topic for the past few years mostly because of the Hollywood liberals that got behind it. However I suspect we will find that divorce rates among gay couples will be high as well as abuse issues. Once the novelty of the political issue wears off, most people will probably go back to viewing gays in the same way they view alcoholics and other groups with obsessive/compulsive disorders.

I am also one that believes gay marriage is a fulfillment of prophecy that in the end days there would be marrying and giving in marriage. Lots of marriage going on. Polygamy will be the next to be made legal. Hopefully pedophilia and incest are never made legal but who really knows how far down the scale the antediluvian society went?

a

Heterosexual marriages and their divorce rates are not enough to fulfill

Prophecy of marrying and giving into marriage? Polygamy is actually a biblically supported idea.

I have a gay step brother and a couple of gay friends. I am shocked that people think homosexualuilty is the same as alchoalism. You cannot choose your sexual preference, anymore than you can choose your eye color. Genitics.

I wonder why us Christians get behind laws against gay marrariage but not againtst adultery, lying,sabbath breaking,eating unclean meat,apparently some sins are worth a law while others are not.

Scott

Oops, I remember now why gay issues are so popular, 90 percent of us are not gay. Easy targets, unlike lying,adultery, and eating bacon.

[ClubV12]

Scott says,

"You cannot choose your sexual preference..."

We sure hear that line a lot, why? It's the classic line used to justify and excuse sexual acts the bible says are sin. There is no excuse for sin. It's to hard to stop sinning, I was born this way, it's not my fault, are all excuses. You can choose to act out on your depraved character or you can choose not to, all of us must make that choice. Gays don't get a free pass because it's to hard for them to change.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

I wonder why us Christians get behind laws against gay marrariage but not againtst adultery, lying,sabbath breaking,eating unclean meat,apparently some sins are worth a law while others are not.

Scott

Oops, I remember now why gay issues are so popular, 90 percent of us are not gay. Easy targets, unlike lying,adultery, and eating bacon.

Uh...well.....yeah.....but I'm trying to change so therfore it is not the same. They knowthat they are sinning and are not trying to change. So they are practising sinners unlike me! Isn't that the standard answer ?? A lot of presumptions in the above statement of mine about the 'other' person. (it's that whole sex thing)

[M. T. Cross]

I have said it before, seems to me that Christians are obsessed with the so called "sins" of what people do with their private bits. Theft, lying, abuse, bigotry, hatred and a slew of others are not even close on the scale. It also trumps things like homelessness, hunger, joblessness etc.

[pierrepaul]

Of course the issue is not whether homosexual tendencies or homosexual activities are "sin". The issue is whether or not homosexual partnerships can be clothed with the legal rights and obligations of marriage.

No one to date has advocated forcing Christians to become gay, to contract gay marriage or to become a practicing homosexual. As a non-homosexual I fail to see why non-homosexuals get worked up over this.

[CoAspen]

Are you trying to be our conscience??

[M. T. Cross]

Nah..... just pointing out painfully obvious facts.....

[olger]

I have a gay step brother and a couple of gay friends. I am shocked that people think homosexualuilty is the same as alchoalism. You cannot choose your sexual preference, anymore than you can choose your eye color. Genitics.

Scott

This statement ^^ is completely illogical. Here's why. One's ethnicity is sacred -- you can't violate it.

One's gender is sacred too. You cannot violate it!

The next time you attempt to draw a parallel, I suggest that you make the comparison univocal.

Go with God,

`G

[scott.t]

Olger,

I cannot believe that you choose your sexual preference anymore than you choose your eye color. You are geniticaly programmed for both.

Gay marriage seems to me the merciful thing to do. Why not allow gay people to have the legal previlages that other married people have? Insurance, death benefits, etc.

Scott

[scott.t]

Scott says,

"You cannot choose your sexual preference..."

We sure hear that line a lot, why? It's the classic line used to justify and excuse sexual acts the bible says are sin. There is no excuse for sin. It's to hard to stop sinning, I was born this way, it's not my fault, are all excuses. You can choose to act out on your depraved character or you can choose not to, all of us must make that choice. Gays don't get a free pass because it's to hard for them to change.

Club,

I think your genetics are deferent from "depraved nature". You are born with genes that make you attracted to male or female or possibly both. This base attraction is not a conscious decision. It is in your genenitic make up.

Surely Adventist don't believe that sexual preference is a choice and not genetically decided.

Scott

[cricket]

I agree with you, Scott. I believe your comparison is fairly logical.

[olger]

Every person has a free will. With that comes the ability to choose right or wrong.

Homosexuality is a sin.

Murder is a sin.

Lying stealing and pride... all sins.

Temptations and traumas may be rationalized as excuses for sin, but in the end, it is the choosing heart that bears responsibility. As to homosexual sin, the Bible is clear that people who do it and don't repent from it will not inherit eternal life.

Your choice.

[pierrepaul]

As to homosexual sin, the Bible is clear that people who do it and don't repent from it will not inherit eternal life.

I agree, but that's irrelevant to the question as to whether or not the state ought to provide a legal framework to regulate homosexual relationships (which legal framework the parties would be free to accept or reject).

Much sin is clothed with legal rights and responsibilities. A worker has a state-provided legal right to sue for unpaid wages, even if the work was performed on Sabbath. A man who takes the Lord's name in vain as part of a work of literature or a theatrical performance, has state-provided legal rights under copyright law. A man who makes a graven image for a municipality or private developer has the legal right to be paid for his work. Adulterers can have their sinful affairs clothed with legal rights and obligations identical to those afforded true marriages. Interest rates form part of state-enforced legal contracts for the lending and borrowing of money notwithstanding biblical exhortations against usury.

Of course, the fact that sins other than homosexuality are clothed with legal rights and obligations is not dispositive of the issue. Many sins are prohibited by law or are not given legal protection (for example, gambling debts cannot be recovered in court in some jurisdictions).

With regard to same-sex marriage, the issue is the role of the state, not the sinfulness of homosexual activity. And keep in mind that same-sex marriage neither adds to not detracts from the sin, which is sexual activity, not the entering into of marriage. Two Christian men could contract marriage and still refrain from "lying with mankind as one lies with womankind" and thus not commit open sin.

[phkrause]

I'm in full agreement with you olger. Its to bad that John316 is not around, because he is one that can really speak to this issue.

[olger]

Yes, John was a good addition to the Club.

[Naomi]

I seem to be uninformed, did John 316 leave us?

[olger]

I think he grew weary of being challenged by liberals defending homosexuality. When I think where this man came from and the biblical clarity that the Lord gave him on this issue...it boggles my mind.

Rejoice in the Lord always,

`G

[Textus Receptus]

We can't be anyone's Holy Spirit. Same sex attraction is a consequence of the 'fall'. As such, the impetus to this attraction is not entirely their fault, in that due to a fallen nature, we are all subject to sin.

The attraction is not a sin as it can't be helped - God views ALL sin equally and not one of us is worthy of the kingdom of God. However, having a fallen nature is also not an excuse to continue shaking your fist at God. We must attempt to change. The best a person can do is pray that God will change their heart, or at minimum become celibate and love God more than the flesh. 1 Cor 7:8-9. Of course, Paul was not advocating a celibate life as in the priesthood, but at times, if flesh is a barrier to your salvation, it is good. I would give the same advise to those who are addicted to sex.

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Mt 5:29-30

[Dr. Shane]

This thread has gone back and forth between homosexuality as moral issue and gay marriage as a legal issue. The two are loosely tied in that the public has started to support gay marriage as they have been exposed to Hollywood presenting it as a moral issue equal to heterosexual marriage.

As I stated earlier, if Jesus does not return soon, the novelty of the political issue will wear off. Hollywood is already losing influence as other past times are becoming increasingly popular. People no longer have to watch whatever is on when they sit down but can watch whichever programing they want which was aired in other time slots. So the public is going to be force-fed much less of Hollywood's propaganda. In all likeliness we will see God's wisdom play out. We will see divorce and abuse rates among gays even higher than those already among heterosexual couples.

Alcoholics and gays are very much cousins. In fact, an extremely large percentage of gays are also alcoholic. No one makes a conscience decision to be either gay or alcoholic. Of course there are some exceptions but most have inherited these predispositions. There is freedom from both. There are gays that accept Christ and become celibate, just like a Catholic priest or nun. They dedicate their lives to the Lord and live much more fulfilled as a Christian than they did in the gay lifestyle. There are also alcoholics that likewise have found freedom.

The civil question around gay marriage is framed as a fairness issue. Consider the issue of prostitution for a moment. Does the civil government have the right to ban prostitution on the grounds of public heath? If they do that, are they trying to force their morality on others?

Marriage laws are made to promote the betterment of society. Gay marriage has been illegal in previous generations because collectively society did not believe gay marriage provided any benefit to society as a whole. Hollywood has successfully convinced many that it is a civil rights issue. Of course it is not. If gay marriage is illegal it is illegal for everyone. It is not a right afforded to some classes or groups and not others. Gays have always had the right to marry but they have been limited (like everyone else) to choosing a partner of the opposite sex. Since nearly every religion condemns homosexuality, society has never been willing to experiment until Hollywood convinced them. Now we are entering that great experiment. Will gay marriage improve society or not?

As Christians we see this as a fulfillment of prophecy. There is eating and drinking and giving in marriage. We are literally eating ourselves to death. Alcohol consumption is now at one of the highest levels in American history. And now not only has serial marriages become common place, serial gay marriages are common place. Indeed we are living in the days of Noah.

[phkrause]

excellent post