1st or 2nd Ascension?

[ClubV12]

We know Jesus ascended Sunday morning, sometime after telling Mary not to touch Him. And I conclude He returned sometime Sunday late afternoon or evening when He next appeared to the assembled disciples. Who could NOW touch Him.

Now this is according to Seventh-day Adventist views and the prophets book, Desire of Ages.

The question is: WHAT did He DO in heaven that Sunday before returing to earth for forty days on Sunday afternoon?

Desire of Ages picks up the story at Revelation chapter 4 and 5.

[brackets are my comments] Is this happening on SUNDAY MORNING at His FIRST ascension? Or upon His return, 40 days later?

"There is the throne, [Father on throne in Holy Place] and around it the rainbow of promise. There are cherubim and seraphim. The commanders of the angel hosts, the sons of God [who are they?], the representatives of the unfallen worlds, are assembled. The heavenly council [who is this?] before which Lucifer had accused God and His Son, the representatives of those sinless realms [more unfallen worlds or Solar Systems?] over which Satan had thought to establish his dominion,--all are there to welcome the Redeemer. They are eager to celebrate His triumph and to glorify their King. But He waves them back... [as He did Mary?]. Not yet; He cannot now receive the coronet of glory and the royal robe. He enters into the presence of His Father. He points to His wounded head, the pierced side, the marred feet; He lifts His hands, bearing the print of nails. He points to the tokens of His triumph; He presents to God the wave sheaf [He arose on the DAY of the wave sheaf offering, a Sunday], those raised with Him as representatives of that great multitude who shall come forth from the grave at His second coming. He approaches the Father, with whom there is joy over one sinner that repents; who rejoices over one with singing. Before the foundations of the earth were laid, the Father and the Son had united in a covenant to redeem man if he should be overcome by Satan. They had clasped Their hands in a solemn pledge that Christ should become the surety for the human race. This pledge Christ has fulfilled. When upon the cross He cried out, "It is finished," He addressed the Father. The compact had been fully carried out. Now He declares: Father, it is finished. I have done Thy will, O My God. I have completed the work of redemption. If Thy justice is satisfied, "I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am." John 19:30; 17:24. The voice of God is heard proclaiming that justice is satisfied."

Desire of Ages, pg 834

[Samie]

Perfect Atonement Made by Christ on the Cross:

Quote:

Type met antitype in the death of Christ, the Lamb slain for the sins of the world. Our great High Priest has made the only sacrifice that is of any value in our salvation. When He offered Himself on the cross, a perfect atonement was made for the sins of the people. We are now standing in the outer court, waiting and looking for that blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.—The Signs of the Times, June 28, 1899. {7ABC 459.7}

He [Christ] planted the cross between heaven and earth, and when the Father beheld the sacrifice of His Son, He bowed before it in recognition of its perfection. “It is enough,” He said. “The Atonement is complete.”—The Review and Herald, September 24, 1901. {7ABC 459.6}

Our great High Priest completed the sacrificial offering of Himself when He suffered without the gate. Then a perfect atonement was made for the sins of the people. Jesus is our Advocate, our High Priest, our Intercessor. Our present position therefore is like that of the Israelites, standing in the outer court, waiting and looking for that blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.—Manuscript 128, 1897. {7ABC 459.8}

The time had come for the universe of Heaven to accept their King. Angels, cherubim and seraphim, would now stand in view of the cross.... The Father accepts the Son. No language could convey the rejoicing of Heaven or God’s expression of satisfaction and delight in His only begotten Son as He saw the completion of the atonement.—The Signs of the Times, August 16, 1899. {7ABC 460.1}

The Father demonstrates His infinite love for Christ, who paid our ransom with His blood, by receiving and welcoming Christ’s friends as His friends. He is satisfied with the atonement made. He is glorified by the incarnation, the life, death, and mediation of His Son.—Testimonies for the Church 6:364. {7ABC 460.2}

The Father gave all honor to the Son, seating Him at His right hand, far above all principalities and power. He expressed His great joy and delight in receiving the Crucified One and crowning Him with glory and honor. And all the favors He has shown to His Son in His acceptance of the great atonement are shown to His people.... God loves them as He loves His Son.... The seal of Heaven has been affixed to Christ’s atonement. His sacrifice is in every way satisfactory.—The Signs of the Times, August 16, 1899. {7ABC 460.3}

The brightness of the Father’s glory, and the excellence and perfection of His sacred law, are only understood through the atonement made upon Calvary by His dear Son; but even the atonement loses its significance when the law of God is rejected. {TDG 246.3}

The salvation of men depends upon a continual application to their hearts of the cleansing blood of Christ. Therefore, the Lord’s Supper was not to be observed only occasionally or yearly, but more frequently than the annual passover. This solemn ordinance commemorates a far greater event than the deliverance of the children of Israel from Egypt. That deliverance was typical of the great atonement which Christ made by the sacrifice of His own life for the final deliverance of His people.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 6:1090. {PaM 170.1}

[ClubV12]

Samie, Stop spamming this thread with your atonement false doctrine. Go start your own thread.

[JoeMo]

Good points, Samie. I don't see them as spam; I see them as valid. The problem arises when people feelChrist's atonement is NOT complete - that they must add to Christ's sacrifice (above accepting that Christ is who He said He is and did what He said He did)in order to attain salvation. Trusting Christ will change a person from the inside out. Trying to "please" Christ with perfect obedience by one's own will may temporarily change outward behavior; but doesn't necessarily change the heart.

[ClubV12]

It's completely off topic JoeMo. Further more Samies post has been COPY/PASTE many times. IF you would like to see more of Samies work, go over to the... wait for it...

ATONEMENT THREAD and knock yourself out!!!! Where you will find the above post, numerous times.

THIS thread isn't about the atonement.

GUESS THE MODERATORS IGNORED MY REQUEST TO CLEAN UP THIS MESS. THANKS FOR NOTHING TOM!

Thread ruined, this is pathetic....

[JoeMo]

Quote:

It's completely off topic JoeMo

Looking at the subject title, maybe. It's not this first time threads have gone off-topic. OTOH, whining to the moderators is more likely to shut down the thread than straying from the topic.

I looked at the atonement thread; and it has devolved into the usual personal agendas and name-calling.

I used to be on CA 8 hours a day. I don't think I'ver been on here a total of 8 hours in the past 3 months. Biggest reason (outside of my mom's death)- arguing about the same stuff all the time - works vs. grace; gays; WO, etc. I'm tired of it. Arguing and trying to beat each other up with quotes is not productive - no matter what the subject. Insulting and "judging" each others' motives is just as useless. Disagreeing should not include being disagreeable. It's not only non-productive, it's a poor witness.

[ClubV12]

It's SPAM JoeMo, it's copy/paste from the completely trashed atonement thread.

Now, like a spreading cancer, we see the same posts on THIS thread as well!

Here is a link so you can go enjoy all 30 some pages of the same thing repeated on an endless loop.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/557235/Atonement_when.html#Post557235

I too, am VERY tired of it!!!! I wanted to have a serious conversation and asked some specific questions. BUT NOPE, the moderators didn't do a darn thing, so here we are,,,, scratch,,, so are we are,,,,, scratch,,,,, so here we are,,,

[Woody]

Quote:

Trying to "please" Christ with perfect obedience by one's own will may temporarily change outward behavior; but doesn't necessarily change the heart.

[Woody]

Quote:

Insulting and "judging" each others' motives is just as useless. Disagreeing should not include being disagreeable. It's not only non-productive, it's a poor witness.

Good Points. Glad to see we connected here JoeMo. I don't spend much time here anymore either. You've made some good points.

[JoeMo]

Great to see you back on, Woody! It's been a while!

Better get back to topic. I'll PM you sometime soon!