Unity, Not Compromise!

[Gibs]

Yes the failure of Christianity I believe is compromise, instead of Unity in the Truth led of His Spirit.

Ellen White speaks strongly of this,

"It has been shown me that there is a fault with us, of honoring the human, flattering men, accepting their ideas, their judgment, as the voice of God, and advocating their cause. Many have such confidence in those whom they have been accustomed to regard as leaders, that they seem incapable of discerning when these persons are in error, and they are ready to cling to and defend erroneous positions, because others do so. This spirit is displeasing to God, and is dangerous to all who indulge in it; for if leading men allow themselves to be controlled by prejudice, evil surmisings, or envy, those who look to them for an example are led astray. Brethren, trust not in man; look to God; trust in his infallible wisdom. Shun as a sin the practice, so common even among Seventh-day Adventists, of becoming the echo of any man, whatever his position. Listen to the voice of the True Shepherd, and you will never be led astray. {GW92 390.2}

* * * * *

Jesus prayed for his disciples, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us.” [John 17:21.] Just before, he said, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” [John 17:17.] And he had given them the promise, “When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.” [John 16:13.] Through the Holy Spirit, Christ will open more clearly to those who will believe on him that which he has inspired holy men to write concerning the truth. And it is thus that the unity for which Christ prayed is to be effected. We are to receive sanctification through obedience to the word and the Spirit of truth. {GW92 391.1}

We cannot surrender the truth in order to accomplish this union; for the very means by which it is to be gained is sanctification through the truth. Human wisdom would change all this, thinking this basis of union too narrow. Men would effect a union through conformity to popular opinions, through a compromise with the world. But truth is God's basis for the unity of his people. {GW92 391.2}

It has been shown me that there is a fault with us, of honoring the human, flattering men, accepting their ideas, their judgment, as the voice of God, and advocating their cause. Many have such confidence in those whom they have been accustomed to regard as leaders, that they seem incapable of discerning when these persons are in error, and they are ready to cling to and defend erroneous positions, because others do so. This spirit is displeasing to God, and is dangerous to all who indulge in it; for if leading men allow themselves to be controlled by prejudice, evil surmisings, or envy, those who look to them for an example are led astray. Brethren, trust not in man; look to God; trust in his infallible wisdom. Shun as a sin the practice, so common even among Seventh-day Adventists, of becoming the echo of any man, whatever his position. Listen to the voice of the True Shepherd, and you will never be led astray. {GW92 390.2}

* * * * *

Jesus prayed for his disciples, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us.” [John 17:21.] Just before, he said, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” [John 17:17.] And he had given them the promise, “When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.” [John 16:13.] Through the Holy Spirit, Christ will open more clearly to those who will believe on him that which he has inspired holy men to write concerning the truth. And it is thus that the unity for which Christ prayed is to be effected. We are to receive sanctification through obedience to the word and the Spirit of truth. {GW92 391.1}

We cannot surrender the truth in order to accomplish this union; for the very means by which it is to be gained is sanctification through the truth. Human wisdom would change all this, thinking this basis of union too narrow. Men would effect a union through conformity to popular opinions, through a compromise with the world. But truth is God's basis for the unity of his people." {GW92 391.2}

Please read a bit more as EGW lays it on heavy!

"

After a long and severe conflict, the faithful few decided to dissolve all union with the apostate church if she still refused to free herself from falsehood and idolatry. They saw that separation was an absolute necessity if they would obey the word of God. They dared not tolerate errors fatal to their own souls, and set an example which would imperil the faith of their children and children's children. To secure peace and unity they were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God; but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference, and even war. {GC 45.3}

Well would it be for the church and the world if the principles that actuated those steadfast souls were revived in the hearts of God's professed people. There is an alarming indifference in regard to the doctrines which are the pillars of the Christian faith. The opinion is gaining ground, that, after all, these are not of vital importance. This degeneracy is strengthening the hands of the agents of Satan, so that false theories and fatal delusions which the faithful in ages past imperiled their lives to resist and expose, are now regarded with favor by thousands who claim to be followers of Christ." {GC 46.1}

After a long and severe conflict, the faithful few decided to dissolve all union with the apostate church if she still refused to free herself from falsehood and idolatry. They saw that separation was an absolute necessity if they would obey the word of God. They dared not tolerate errors fatal to their own souls, and set an example which would imperil the faith of their children and children's children. To secure peace and unity they were ready to make any concession consistent with fidelity to God; but they felt that even peace would be too dearly purchased at the sacrifice of principle. If unity could be secured only by the compromise of truth and righteousness, then let there be difference, and even war. {GC 45.3}

Well would it be for the church and the world if the principles that actuated those steadfast souls were revived in the hearts of God's professed people. There is an alarming indifference in regard to the doctrines which are the pillars of the Christian faith. The opinion is gaining ground, that, after all, these are not of vital importance. This degeneracy is strengthening the hands of the agents of Satan, so that false theories and fatal delusions which the faithful in ages past imperiled their lives to resist and expose, are now regarded with favor by thousands who claim to be followers of Christ." {GC 46.1}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gerr]

Unity is NOT possible as long as we cling to personal opinions.

[Kevin H]

Hey, there is unity in diversity. The Old Testament had the Aaronite Priesthood, more popular in the south, the Moshite Priesthood, more popular in the North, and the Royal party. They got along about as well as we do at times. Yet it if from all these schools that we got the Bible. Study the differences between Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

And there was the variations between Paul, Peter, Apollos, with John keeping them from becoming separate religions. Study the differences between Mark and Luke. Yet both gospels are included in our Bible (and with our presuppositions we tend to read sloppy and not see the way they disagreed with each other)

Too often in support of unity too many of us believe that the solution is to throw out the followers of Peter, Apollos and Jesus.

[ClubV12]

The above counsel you posted Gibs primarily concerns itself with the three angels message. That people will need to carefully consider what their Preacher is teaching in a Sunday keeping Church. And "come out of her my people".

I believe you have misapplied the thrust of this counsel to justify you personally leaving the visible, organized body of believers known as Seventh-day Adventists.

Ellen White is NOT making a call to do this and has never made such a call. Quite the opposite, she is adamantly opposed to those who would remove their membership from that visible, organized body of believers appointed by our Lord to be the chosen vessel to a dieing world. To fight against it, is to fight against the very throne of God. However enfeebled and defective it may appear to be, it remains His chosen vessel.

Consider the women at the well. Jesus sent her to HIS chosen people, HIS Church on earth at that time, the Jewish Church. As enfeebled, defective, steeped in apostasy, hypocritical and defective as it was, thats where He sent her! Where else would she go? To the Samaritan Church? To the pagan Church? To your home Church? No, He sent her to HIS Church.

Today, He would direct her to the Seventh-day Adventist organized, visible Church. Not some random home church or offshoot group who had removed themselves from His organized Church. He would not send her to the Baptists or the Mormons, but to Seventh-day Adventists. That group from which salvation may be found.

[Gibs]

Unity in diversity is unity in compromise and ClubV12 EGW is talking about reform.

No and the tread is not about me removing my membership. However since you brought it up to fight against any of the worlds church structures of men is not war against God.

Now if you were against the one He established it sure would be, but I don't fight against it, I woo for it. Only God can build His Church and He did.

Note also Christ and the disciples also home church, read acts. Christ was not welcome in the church of that day of the world.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Unity must be with Him first in Truth and that is how He must be worshipped or He cannot and will not be in the midst and then you don't have Church.

When we have Unity in Truth with Him, those who do also will have Unity and Harmony among them.

Ac 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

The coming day will be greater than Pentecost. Where can this happen? Only among those who will be in total harmony with Him in Truth, led of His Spirit of truth that guides into "ALL" Truth.

The Truth, the wonderful precious Truth and we must have it on every point.

He loves us all and is wooing everyone who will come!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Jesus sent Paul to the organized Church of his day. That same organized Church held a General Conference meeting to consider doctrinal questions. Having done that, they sent out letters to the organized Churches instructing them as to acceptable doctrine for the world Church. Seven of these early Churches are identified by name in Revelation.

When God chose a new people, to come out of the Sunday keeping organized Church, they were a small group who met in homes. Just like the early Church did. Just as Abraham and Moses had done before them.

Home Churches have their place. For those who cannot attend one of the visible, organized Seventh-day Adventist Churches of this day. Home Churches are not recognized as official members of the body of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. They have no say in the government of that Church, they have no representation to or from that Church. They cannot baptize or accept members into that Church. They cannot receive tithe funds from the organized Church. There are some quite well organized local Churches that keep and honor nearly all the same doctrine of the visible Adventist Church. Some of these, I know of two in my area, are seeking official recognition of the organized Church. They wish to be a part of the body, have a say in that organization. Have a Pastor appointed by the Conference at their leader. But these Churches have to meet certain minimum standards, rules, Church laws in order to be officially accepted.

I'm OK with that! I'm also OK with no accepting some people for baptism. I'm OK with not accepting some people into membership. I'm OK with disfellowshipping some members that violate Church law. I'm OK with not accepting your home Church, Gibs, into official membership of the Adventist Church.

The organized Church is just that, "organized", as per Christs instructions. Not everyone can join, all are welcome to come, visit, taste and see that the Lord is good. Not everyone will be granted the privilege of associating with heavenly angels, certain rules and laws need to be understood and applied first. I didn't make the rules, God did.

[Gibs]

Trouble is ClubV12 that it is organized of men and men are it's head and men ordain the teachers in it.

And so error is weaved in adding more errors to all that have come in and never to be rescinded.

You state,

"I'm OK with not accepting your home Church, Gibs, into official membership of the Adventist Church."

Well I'm OK with that too as it wouldn't fit. You see my home Church is this one,

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

You attend in Spirit and Worship has to be in Truth or you are not in it.

But dear ones what I want to press forward is the great need of unity in this thread. So please let us keep this one on subject.

Again I present a quote of Sister White, she states it so aptly.

"When the members of the church are one with Christ, there will be union one with another, and this unity will be a living testimony to the world of the power of the gospel. Why can we not see from the lessons of Christ, and especially from His prayer for the unity of believers, that Christians must be perfect in unity in order to represent the glory of their Redeemer? As believers in Christ, we are "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner-stone, in whom all the building, fitly framed together, groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." {BEcho, April 23, 1894 par. 6}

Notice "through the Spirit" and He is the Spirit of Truth!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Jesus chose men to organize His Church. He chose Moses, not all liked that choice and some wanted to start their own Church. He chose the apostles and the disciples and blessed them and had them organize for service. He chose William Miller, Hiram Edson, Ellen White and many others to organize His chosen Church of today.

There is not a shred of evidence that He has chosen any other group other than the one we know today as the Adventist Church.

Unity with this Church, Gibs, is impossible for you because you chose to place yourself outside it's authority. You believe you have the right to declare yourself your own authority on this matter. By your authority you have established what you believe is the "true Church". This has been going on since 1844 and will continue.

Sister White offers counsel on this: Let them go, the Church, Gods visible, organized for service Church, is better off without them. We are no more called to align ourselves with those who have left this Church than we are called to align ourselves with the Mormon Church. Unity with such, is impossible.

[Gibs]

Again, ClubV12, the only Church that is authentic of Him is this one,

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Back to subject,

Unity of which comes when we all come into the truth built upon the foundation of Truth of His of His Apostles and Prophets of which He ordained

"If the members of the church are one with Christ, there will be union one with another. The unity of believers will be a living testimony to the world of the power of the Gospel. When there is love one to another, the bright beams of the Sun of Righteousness will be diffused to a world that lies in darkness. Why can we not see from the lessons of Christ, and especially from his prayer for the unity of believers, that Christians must be perfect in unity in order to represent the glory of their Redeemer? If those who believe the truth would bring the prayer of Christ into their practical life, they would grow up into the full stature of men and women in Christ Jesus. As believers in Christ, we are "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." {ST, February 7, 1895 par. 6}

We must have such a great love for the Truth that we become guarded to accept nothing else!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

"Back" to subject? Unity IS the subject!

You say that a love for the truth is the ONLY way to unity and you will accept nothing else. I agree, so what IS truth? He will lead us into all truth? Only if we let Him, only if we follow the rules the path He has laid out.

Do you believe, Gibs, that God raised up a special people in 1844 and gave them special light on the three angels message? Do you believe those people, those men, who organized themselves into a company and took the name Seventh-day Adventist were specifically blessed and given a message for the world? That at some point in time, they were in fact THEE chosen vessel of our Lord above all other organized and home churches of that time?

If so, WHEN did this stop being true? WHEN did God remove from His favor this organized body of believers? WHEN did this duty of the organized Church He HAD raised up, pass to individual home churches and a disconnected body of believers without formal structure?

What year and event would you say constitutes the "apostasy" and removal of Gods favor on the Church He had raised up in 1844?

[Gibs]

The SDA church structure or any of the others is not the agency of God to lead one into "ALL" Truth. That is done only by the Holy Spirit of Truth.

In 1901 EGW turned the church around from having men be king in it, but in 1904 they took it back over again. I believe it almost crushed EGW's heart. Many notice the down hill slide began around the latter part of 1888 and on, the the people were led out of the ditch of legalism upon the road and it wasn't long until most slid on across in the opposite ditch of liberalism.

Being an overcomer as Christ made it clear we must be isn't and can never be done by legalism or liberalism. The works of love only will suffice. It is when the law of love has become also our law of love to Him supremely and to our fellows as ourselves.

I wasn't going to bring this out about unity but you wanting to wrestle with me about not being a SDA I will.

I do not have any faith whatever today that the required unity will ever and can never come out of and from any of any of the denominational named churches.

Unity will only be with those who have the truth of His Word and by His Spirit. I must go there to find it and receive it, and we must be thirsty for it.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

More precious than gold and yet men fight and dig for mammon, money, wealth and position but for the most precious Gem of all they leave it buried.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

I have no desire to wrestle with you, enter into controversy or bring up conflict.

It needs to be made clear, to the readers, just where you stand Gibs, no compromise should be made. It is clear you believe the Adventist Church apostized in 1888 or 1900 or pick a date, any date. It is clear you are waring against Gods visible, chosen Church on earth.

You are the one in apostasy here Gibs, not the Adventist Church. Unity with your Church is no more possible than unity with the Catholic Church.

[Gibs]

Why ClubV12 would anyone need to establish a church structure when we had one guaranteed not to fall to the gates of hell.

The only unity in all of the other church structures have is groups believing what the structure of it teaches and then there is pockets of believers in each one in a unity of different opinion.

That is not the unity desired. The unity that Must be had is the Truth of His Word as revealed only to those who have His Spirit of truth.

How can you accuse me of being in apostasy for being a member of the Church Christ established on Himself and wooing folks to come and follow Him and Him only.

It has His Guarantee that the gates of hell would never prevail against it, HIS WORD!

I will not bash you for loving to stay in the SDA structure, that is your right and no way will I restrict your freedom.

You shouldn't bother yourself informing people where I stand, I do that 100% of the time.

I love the Truth and He is the Truth and the wonderful unity and harmony that it alone can bring, the desired Unity and Harmony.

My thrust here and everywhere is dig and with all your heart soul and mind for the Jewel, the Truth.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Some do wrest the scriptures, and Ellen White, to their own destruction. And call it "truth".

[Gibs]

Yes, ClubV12 I agree that wresting of scripture and the SOP is done.

In the beginning the people of the church decided to call them selves S D A as they had become a people in reform especially on those two points and of course are still derided today of the 1844 proclamation. And as so they were in Christ's Church in the early days worshipping Him in all the Truth that came to them.

We were never I don't believe to become known to the world as a denomination but as a dedicated people to following God to the letter.

This changed though at the year 1901 when they at the head made themselves the head instead of God. EGW did manage to break it up that time but in 1904 they again made themselves the king of it. In other words they took it out of Gods hands into their own hands. EGW made it clear that this was not to be.

Please hear her well here,

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. {UL 315.5}

Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls. The glory of God has penetrated the prison walls, flooding with glorious beams of heavenly light the darkest dungeon. His saints may suffer, but their sufferings will, like the apostles of old, spread their faith and win souls to Christ and glorify His holy name. The bitterest opposition expressed by those who hate God's great moral standard of righteousness should not and will not shake the steadfast soul who trusts fully in God. . . . {UL 315.6}

They that will be doers of the word are building securely, and the tempest and storm of persecution will not shake their foundation, because their souls are rooted to the eternal Rock.--Letter 108, Oct. 28, 1886, to her older sister and her husband who had not accepted the Sabbath truth. {UL 315.7}

In the beginning it was His Church, a people who choose to be called SDA's but not to be another denominational church structure of men.

You see there is many as myself that keep the Holy Sabbath and believe solidly Jesus is coming again and very soon. We worship God in truth and Spirit, so what are we?

Now under penalty we cannot call ourselves Corporate SDA's but let me say this, I don't have to be a Corporation SDA to be one as in the beginning before it became a Corporation of men.

I don't remember the year the king men of it went and made their church structure a Corporation.

His Church you must know cannot be a corporation of this world.

If the wagon wasn't already broken down that surely did it very well.

I did not leave God's Church, I only took my name out of the books of a corporate denomination of this world.

Ok, now I've said my piece in response to ClubV12 and possibly others and had no intentions of going here with this thread.

What I want to discuss is getting to true Unity of the Truth of His Word and to wipe out any compromise.

Joe Crews published a little book, "creeping compromise" that all SDA's should read. J Crews was a pretty good straight shooter but many today don't know of him.

You may still be able to pick up a copy at an ABC, I don't know. The ABC closest to me is soon going to go out of business. I have a grandson who worked in it and he got out and started a hauling and cleanup and handyman business.

Folks, let us get deadly serious and totally dedicated to follow Him and Him only.

May you be blessed of our God who is truth the way and the Life!

I love you all,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Everytime someone misapplies the "God has a church..." quote, they wrap the chains of their delusion a little tighter about themselves.

God has a VISIBLE, organized for service Church, that Ellen White never abandoned and right up until her death supported with pen and voice.

No man knows who belongs to Gods hidden Church and it is the sin of presumption to say we do. No one knows who the wheat and tares are, that is the job of the third angel. Don't interfere with his work by withdrawing from Gods visible Church.

[Gibs]

She kept fighting yes for reform but lost the battle.

What she stated to her older sister is the Church she was in without doubt, for heavens sake realizing that how could she not!.

Yes His Church is visible, most people just can't see it is all.

Yes and the Church Christ established is doing the only true service work, the straight testimony of the True witness Jesus Christ and the True Gospel, Saved from sin and not in it. It is working on the errors that are in the structures as EGW did till she died.

As I have stated before, my name is no longer on the books so I am not a corporation SDA, but that don't keep me from being a solid generic one which all are in the one Church with the guarantee of never falling, yes the one He built.

Be in it, it is peace, no name in it on paper here in this earth but where it counts up yonder in high Heaven in the one place that really counts.

But know when you do, you do not stay hidden, you come out and give the straight testimony and the true Gospel!

No one has to reveal as to who and what you are.

I am one of His happy subjects in Him and of Him, for and with Him in ALL things.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Gibs says,

"Yes His Church is visible, most people just can't see it is all."

God did not hide His Church under a bushell so people can't see it. That would be YOUR Church that is hidden, not His. Ellen White was very clear when she spoke of Gods visible Church. That organized body of believers called Seventh-day Adventists, that all the world can see.

Just as all the world could see the camp of the Israelites, see them crossing the Red Sea, see them conquering peoples as they took possession of the land. God is not hiding.

[Gibs]

You have the problem though ClubV12 that the SDA denomination is the same church today as before 1904.

Then what are you going to do about the one Jesus Christ guaranteed the gates of hell would not prevail against. That means it is still alive and well!

We will all see rather soon now who are of His Church and the Holy Spirit is poured out and the last witness goes forth.

These dear Bro. will not be witnessing error but will be revealing the many, many errors that have come into Christendom.

This is to be even greater than the time of Pentecost.

The errors taught of Babylon have deeply invaded all the denominational church structures of men.

It is high time to be following only Jesus Christ and abiding in His Truth. Error sinks the ship that had hopes of going through.

I love His Church that He guaranteed! Also the Remnant is a small piece of the original which He built.

We wrestle to get to the truth and we dig to get to the truth and it is dug up in His Word by the help of His Spirit of Truth of which He promised would guide us into all truth.

It is a most precious jewel! It alone received will bring unity and harmony!

What is needed is for all His True children to stand up from wherever they are and expose the errors.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

[ClubV12]

I get it Gibs, you believe the Seventh-day Adventist Church was abandoned of God in 1904 and it no longer His appointed agency on earth to preach the three angels message to the world.

You belive it is YOUR "invisible" Church that now has that responsibilty and you have removed your membership from that apostate group you know as Adventists.

Nothing new here Gibs, people have been saying the same things, do the same things since the God raised up His chosen people in 1844.

Some claim the "apostasy" happened in 1863 when the Church was officially organized and recognized by the State. Many left then, others waited until they saw something they didn't like, then they left. This will continue right to the end, in fact, WHOLE Churches will go out! And you will be more convinced than ever that you are right. Korah felt the same way, right up until the time the earth swallowed him up.

Dangerous ground your on Gibs, but you've been there so long, theres is nothing I can say or do that will change your mind. I will take Ellen Whites counsel in such a case, "Let them go, the Church is better off without them."

[Gibs]

Well, it seems you think EGW wasn't actually of the Church she advised her sister to take up. Well I do and that is the one we want to be in.

I wonder if the only reason it still is in the published writings put on the disc is because it has been in her writings already out there for some time in print.

What is new here CubV12 is in all those occurrences you speak of they knew not of the one Christ established upon Himself. They either didn't read the following verse or didn't comprehend it or God kept His hand over it.

Does this Church He built still stand or not,- Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

What about this Church He built, is this not something new to you that cannot be denied?

I for one cannot deny it. Why would I want to?

I would have been glad to have known of that verse and comprehended it sooner and I have run across another that is presenting it and he didn't get it from me.

Anyway the Truth will prevail and I love the Truth. Unity is with all who are of it fully.

He gave us minds His Word and also His Spirit to all truly born again. A full and unconditional total surrender must be given. We must fall fully broken into His Hands!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Folks if we really get down to business and realize the church building, or the denomination as EGW stated is not His Church, His Bride, His Body.

Consider the following verses with under standing, it gets deep if not realized before.

1Co 3:16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

We are His Building a spiritual house, He is working on our building, we must cooperate.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

The chief cornerstone, the Head of the Spiritual building.

1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

You surely see from that, that His Church is those of Him, His people, His Body and Bride.

It was predicted that He would build it,

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

And as prophesized He sure did! And notice He guaranteed it to not be prevailed against.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Never to be overpowered by the forces of hell! Solid Assurance!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Ellen White speaks of the Church, the organized, visible Church. Not some definition of "church" shrouded in mystery and introducing confusion in to her simple, plain statements.

"Many do not realize the sacredness of church relationship and are loath to submit to restraint and discipline. Their course of action shows that they exalt their own judgment above that of the united church, and they are not careful to guard themselves lest they encourage a spirit of opposition to its voice. Those who hold responsible positions in the church may have faults in common with other people and may err in their decisions; but notwithstanding this, the church of Christ on earth has given to them an authority that cannot be lightly esteemed. Christ, after His resurrection, delegated power unto His church, saying: "Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained."

"Church relationship is not to be lightly canceled;... Every believer should be wholehearted in his attachment to the church. Its prosperity should be his first interest, and unless he feels under sacred obligations to make his connection with the church a benefit to it in preference to himself, it can do far better without him. .... They should also feel it a solemn duty to illustrate in their characters the teachings of Christ, being at peace one with another and moving in perfect harmony as an undivided whole. They should defer their individual judgment to the judgment of the body of the church."

ED.268

[Gibs]

You state, "of church shrouded in mystery." I don't know where you would get it any more straight out than the statement of Jesus,

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Then the straight out supporting scriptures I posted above just above your post here.

Holy Smoke! It is from our God and Saviour Himself!

ClubV12, if you cannot receive it please go on in peace as I do believe most can see it.

Tell me, Please, when did His Church He Built fall to the gates of hell?

Again for the perusal of all the EGW statement which is Biblical solid truth, read my post just above ClubV12's.

God has a church. It is not the great cathedral, neither is it the national establishment, neither is it the various denominations; it is the people who love God and keep His commandments. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20). Where Christ is even among the humble few, this is Christ's church, for the presence of the High and Holy One who inhabiteth eternity can alone constitute a church. {UL 315.5}

Where two or three are present who love and obey the commandments of God, Jesus there presides, let it be in the desolate place of the earth, in the wilderness, in the city enclosed in prison walls. The glory of God has penetrated the prison walls, flooding with glorious beams of heavenly light the darkest dungeon. His saints may suffer, but their sufferings will, like the apostles of old, spread their faith and win souls to Christ and glorify His holy name. The bitterest opposition expressed by those who hate God's great moral standard of righteousness should not and will not shake the steadfast soul who trusts fully in God. . . . {UL 315.6}

They that will be doers of the word are building securely, and the tempest and storm of persecution will not shake their foundation, because their souls are rooted to the eternal Rock.--Letter 108, Oct. 28, 1886, to her older sister and her husband who had not accepted the Sabbath truth. {UL 315.7}

That statement cannot be disputed by Scripture! You are invited to try. The Truth invites investigation!

I pray all be blessed in the truth of this and more.

Want true Unity and Harmony? It is in His Church! There is no creeping compromise in it!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.