Becoming a Feminist

[Tom Wetmore]

[olger]

"Girls are not allowed doing things, and I loved doing things."

"I am a female, but clearly that #$@!! ..."

"Women were weird and hard to relate to."

"Women were a strange group that represented a single person." (She means gender, here).

So the fact that gender is just two classes, is frustrating to her (2:20-2:40). Here you have a prime breeding ground for you-know-what.

I'll bet Tom is going to the meeting in Toronto - or is that over.

Thanks for the video on how to become a feminist, Tom. Is this how you became a feminist?

Blessings all,

`G

[Neil D]

THAT'S a feminist??????

I thought that was just learning to grow up........expressing individuality and learning to be a person....

[phkrause]

I don't know Tom! I agreed with her on a few points, and mind you a very few points. In general I disagreed with most of what she had to say. I really disagreed with her meaning of "feminist" be equal with men. From most of the woman I know, they say being recognized as a woman is much more to being equal with a man than being thought of as a "feminist." Most seemed to think that being seen as a feminist is not a good thing! But we'll have to see what the woman of this forum think, not the men.

[cricket]

[Neil D]

I disagree that "Feminism is treating people as people"...that is off....not as it should be...

but then again,OTOH, people don't treat people as people....they stereotype them...into catagories....

It's no wonder that she calls herself "feminist".....

What bothers me is that you guys are agreeing with her classifications......

[cricket]

Are girls allowed to do things (without ridicule, rolling eyes, ogling eyes or patronizing from others)? In my experience, if the girl is trying to do things that are outside the gender-stereotyped roles the answer is "not usually."

Women were weird and hard to relate to? In my opinion, there are an awful lot of women who are weird and hard to relate to. Take example a woman who enjoys sewing, knitting, floral-arranging and cooking--that's so weird to me! I am definitely NOT hard-wired to enjoy those things.

"Women were a strange group that represented a single person." (She means gender, here).

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I must've grown up in a strange family. It was okay for me to play with my brother's trucks and other toys, we each had our own teddy bears. From the time I was 5 yrs old I could pick out what I wanted to wear the next day. If I wanted to wear something pink, I did....and if I wanted to wear things that didn't match, that was okay too. Nobody EVER told me I couldn't be whatever I aspired to be (as a kid, I wanted to be an attorney). I seldom played with dolls. I was taught how to chop wood with an axe, build campfires, pitch a tent, as well as how to knit and crochet and embroider and quilt and sew and cook and bake.

Come to think of it, I was taught a LOT more things than was my brother....kinda feel sorry for him now!

I want equal pay for equal work. And I think women ought to have the same lifework choices as a man does. On the other hand, I also want the option of choosing who I want as a doctor, a pastor, etc.

I think some women think they have to dress, talk, look, and act like a man, if they are in a male-dominated job and want to be accepted. But that's not true. It comes across as phony baloney, and all they end up doing is looking like they belong on a wacko reality show jumping over firepits.

[phkrause]

I must've grown up in a strange family. It was okay for me to play with my brother's trucks and other toys, we each had our own teddy bears. From the time I was 5 yrs old I could pick out what I wanted to wear the next day. If I wanted to wear something pink, I did....and if I wanted to wear things that didn't match, that was okay too. Nobody EVER told me I couldn't be whatever I aspired to be (as a kid, I wanted to be an attorney). I seldom played with dolls. I was taught how to chop wood with an axe, build campfires, pitch a tent, as well as how to knit and crochet and embroider and quilt and sew and cook and bake.

Come to think of it, I was taught a LOT more things than was my brother....kinda feel sorry for him now!

I want equal pay for equal work. And I think women ought to have the same lifework choices as a man does. On the other hand, I also want the option of choosing who I want as a doctor, a pastor, etc.

I think some women think they have to dress, talk, look, and act like a man, if they are in a male-dominated job and want to be accepted. But that's not true. It comes across as phony baloney, and all they end up doing is looking like they belong on a wacko reality show jumping over firepits.

[Neil D]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

I thought that was just learning to grow up........expressing individuality and learning to be a person....

It is, for people who are given that opportunity.

Well, she was given the opportunity, but somehow, she made the leap to call herself a "feminist"....I still don't think she is....but I do believe that she is reacting to those who think of her as a female whose ideas have to be confirmed by a male, and not looked down upon because she is a girl, and wants to be paid the same wages as a male who does the same things as she does... To react to ideas contrary to your own is NOT feminism...

[cricket]

I think you are entirely missing the point I was making. It was my intention to let you know that she was/is probably someone who was not given the opportunity to express her individuality and to learn to be a "person."

To me, this is one of those "been there, done that" situations. Unless you've been a female and experienced life as a female in a home/society that treats you differently than your male siblings/peers, you might not notice the differences and think that the opportunities are the same. For me, the opportunities were not the same as those offered to my male peers.

She told her audience what her definition of feminism is. Perhaps it isn't the same as what your definition/understanding of what feminism is--but she is the one who made the video, she's the one expressing her own opinions based on her own life experiences as a female.

I'm going to view the video again, but I don't think that she ever mentioned wages in her presentation.

Yep. I was right. She doesn't mention wages at all. Where did you get that idea?

[ClubV12]

Unless you've been a female or, unless you've been black, or yellow, or white, or gay, or a drug addict, or perhaps a "feminist", the list goes on...

And yet this does not excuse "sin".

[Tom Wetmore]

What sin? Who is talking about sin?

[ClubV12]

Thats a reasonable question Tom! I just offer the observation whatever definition one uses, there is no excuse for it because your a minority, or oppressed, or were drunk at the time, or a women, or whatever your circumstances in life may be.

As Cricket noted, your opportunities may be limited because your a woman, or.... fill in the blank. But this does not excuse "bad behaviour".

[Tom Wetmore]

What bad behavior? Who is talking about bad behavior?

[Neil D]

I think you are entirely missing the point I was making. It was my intention to let you know that she was/is probably someone who was not given the opportunity to express her individuality and to learn to be a "person."

[Neil D]

Unless you've been a female or, unless you've been black, or yellow, or white, or gay, or a drug addict, or perhaps a "feminist", the list goes on...

And yet this does not excuse "sin".

"sin"? I agree with Tom....where the heck are you coming from?

Who is talking about sin?

Am I to conclude that "being a feminist" is a sin????

Am I to conclude that what this girl is describing and her reaction to it is sinful???

because if that is your meaning, then let me ask you a question......

aren't you becoming overly judgmental?

[ClubV12]

Same place you were Neil. No excuses about why she can't run the jackhammer on the crew. Or can't get the pay, job, house she wants because shes a woman, black, white, gay, live in the ghetto or whatever.

No excuses due to your circumstances in life that you think hold you back.

There are no excuses for sin, bad behaviour, moaning about your problems, blaming other people or being rude in your reply to my post because you don't know what "sin" is!

Ignorance of the law, is no excuse.

[Neil D]

Sorry, but I don't think that you ARE in the same place that I am in....For example, most of us are talking about this woman and her "becoming a feminist"...You,OTOH, are talking about sin....and excuses....

Where, in all the rules, are you allowed to change the subject of a thread?

[ClubV12]

Put the jack hammer down Neil, your not man enough for the job. :)

[Neil D]

Put the jack hammer down Neil, your not man enough for the job.

No, trying to pry a direct answer from you is ..well, one needs a jackhammer to get one out of you...

So, answer the question-

Who is talkin' about sin?

How did you arrive that feminism in this context is sin?

[Naomi]

One day (even if she doesn't openly admit it) she will be happy if someone honks at her when she is jogging, whistles when she is walking down the street; doesn't hire her but wants to date her anyway ... she will probably want to tip anyone who asks to ID her!

Okay, you can stone me now!!! LOL