Deacon / Deaconess Jobs

[Narcah]

I find myself being head deacon in 2014 for the first time in my life at my small (70 people a Sabbath ) church. I had the hair brained idea that the deaconess don't actually do much, so I want to give them the opportunity to be blessed through helping.

Would it be appropriate to ask deaconess' to help with collecting tithe and dismissing the congregation after church ? Has this ever been done?

[cricket]

Better not assume the deaconesses don't actually do very much. Also, if you do ask them to help...why not offer your services as deacons in doing some of the things the deconesses do.

[Gail]

Jason- God has given you wisdom is showing you that it is a hair-brained idea! Both offices in our church are plum full of ministry. I hope that your year's service is one of discovery and appreciation and praise for these faithful, HARD-WORKING individuals on your team

And may The Lord bless you for taking on the position.

[Narcah]

Well I know for a fact they don't do much because I asked. They help with communion and that's about it. So, the question remains, would it be appropriate to ask the deaconess' to help with collecting tithe and dismissing after church?

[phkrause]

I don't see why not! If you have a church manuel, maybe check it out and see what it has to say?

[ClubV12]

Well, if your not going to ordain them and if they aren't allowed to speak while ushering folks out, and as long as they carry no authority over any men, and their dress' are long enough,,, did I leave anything out? Then I guess it would be OK.

Oh yeah, bonnets, will they be required to wear them? Can't be to careful you know.

[cricket]

Maybe the deaconesses need a little more training on what it means to be a deaconess--rather than doing the jobs of the deacons.

See the church manual for more information...pages 77,78, and 79

[Gregory Matthews]

Maybe your church should elect both men and women to the position of Deacon!

The bottom line, you can use the females as you choose.

By the way, can ordain both to their position.

Here is the authority to ordain females:

Quote:

The church may arrange for suitable service of induction for the deaconess by an ordained minister holding current credentials.

2005 CHURCH Manual, page 58.

This allows for ordination but does not require it.

NOTE: All Deacons must be ordained: Page 55 see above.

NOTE: For those who will argue that the above does not support the ordination of females to that position, Females are being ordained, in some congregations under that authority.

[lazarus]

Well I know for a fact they don't do much because I asked. They help with communion and that's about it. So, the question remains, would it be appropriate to ask the deaconess' to help with collecting tithe and dismissing after church?

In my church the deaconesses do a number of different things. They are the largest department. They have about 16 in all. One family recently had a baby and the deaconesses cooked food and bought it over for them for about 10 days. They make visits to the sick and church members in general. One of the duties of our head deaconess is to send flowers to the families of the bereaved. They are also tasked with dealing with females who become distressed or who create a disturbance during worship service. In one of my previous churches the deaconesses cleaned the home of an elderly lady who, due to illness, had allowed her home to become shockingly filthy.

The scope opportunities for ministry involving deaconess is only limited by our willingness and creativity.

And yes our ordained deaconesses collect offering and serve communion.

[cricket]

Maybe your church should elect both men and women to the position of Deacon!

The bottom line, you can use the females as you choose.

By the way, can ordain both to their position.

Here is the authority to ordain females:

Quote:

The church may arrange for suitable service of induction for the deaconess by an ordained minister holding current credentials.

2005 CHURCH Manual, page 58.

This allows for ordination but does not require it.

NOTE: All Deacons must be ordained: Page 55 see above.

NOTE: For those who will argue that the above does not support the ordination of females to that position, Females are being ordained, in some congregations under that authority.

Just to be perfectly clear, you may NOT use females as you choose. Women are not chattel or slaves. They are never to be "used as you choose".

[Green Cochoa]

Gregory,

I have served as a deacon without being ordained. I was told that ordination for deacons was optional. You seem to be saying otherwise.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Just to be perfectly clear, you may NOT use females as you choose. Women are not chattel or slaves. They are never to be "used as you choose".

I apologize for the miscommunication.

My response was in the context of the question asked. That question, as I understood it, was whether or not one could give females some (all?) of the same responsibilities that were given to the males.

The CHURCH MANUAL, (2005 edition) says:

Quote:

Deaconesses serve the church in a wide variety of important activities,. . .

Page 58.

Of course, the scope of those activities would depend upon:

1) The desire of the congregation as to the duties.

2) Agreement by the woman to fill those duties.

This is exactly the same for the males.

I understand the CHURCH MANUAL to mean that subject to common sense, the desire of the congregation and the willingness of the people involved, women (deaconesses) can perform the same duties as the males (deacons)

I trust that I will not have to spell out common sense issues.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I have served as a deacon without being ordained. I was told that ordination for deacons was optional. You seem to be saying otherwise.

Green, I will attempt to clarify my comment:

1) Yes, there are many deacons who serve without being ordained.

2) EGW says that the original seven Deacons were ordained. See AA page 90.

3) The Bible says that those seven were set apart by prayer and the laying on of hands. See Acts 6:5.

4) The 2005 CHURCH MANUAL says, page 56:

Quote:

A newly elected deacon cannot fill his office until he has been set apart by an ordained minister who holds current credentials from the conference/mission/field. . . . the minister, assisted by an elder where appropriate, ordains the deacon by prayer and the laying on of hands.

On page 210, the CHURCH MANUAL, 2005 Edition says:

Quote:

A similar but shorter dedication should take place for the ordination of deacons.

The above passage comes from a section on organizing a new congregation/church.

To get to your question: You seem to be asking if it is optional or mandatory to ordain deacons?

I present the above. There are those who consider it to be optional and those who consider it to be mandatory.

It is done both ways. However, more congregations are ordaining their deacons.

I do not chose to debate whether it is optional or mandatory.

The fundamental question here is whether or not the CHURCH MANUAL is mandatory. That is a subject that I am not now going to debate.

I will suggest that Calvin B. Rock once wrote an article published in the November 28, 1991 issue of the ADVENTIST

REVIEW entitled: "Doctrines, Teachings, and Policies.

While that article does not directly address the question that Green has asked, I believe it is a very helpful article in this general area.

[Green Cochoa]

Gregory,

What did the manual prior to 2005 say? I ask because I was told the church manual did not require deacons to be ordained.

There were other complicating factors. I was a deacon in a church plant. My membership is, and always has been, in America. Nearly every church I have been a "member" of in Asia has been but a "group," and not even really a "company." The one where I was a deacon was a brand new group, but had a moderately large attendance. I am not presently serving in any "official" capacity, but I guess one could say I function as a pastor in the present group where I am. I am the spiritual leader of greatest experience in the church, though I am not the oldest. I am called upon to speak at every occasion, and most of the sermons are my privilege/responsibility.

I do not have a church manual here, but we cooperate as best we can with the local mission.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[cricket]

I trust that I will not have to spell out common sense issues.

Just wanted to clarify that issue. Making certain it was not a Freudian slip or something you wished to intimate through subliminal messaging. Language and its use are powerful tools.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green: The 2000 CHURCH MANUAL reads essentially the same as I have cited from the 2005 MANUAL, with the exception that the page numbering is different.

It is of note that both the 1992 and the 2009 SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST MINISTERS MANUAL (1992) HANDBOOK (2009) outline an ordination service for deacons.

In the 2009 edition see pages 95.

The 1976 edition of the CHURCH MANUAL requires that Deacons be ordained, see page 92. On page 95 it states that we do not ordain deaconesses, but it does not prohibit such.

The 1971 edition of the CHURCH MANUAL on page 90 requires that Deacons be ordained. On page 92 is states essentially the same as in the 1976 edition in regard to Deaconesses.

If we are going to look at that 2009 edition of the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST MINISTERS HANDBOOK, there is an interesting comment made on page 87 which references GENERAL CONFERENCE WORKING POLICY L-35-50. This is the policy that sets the standards for ordination to clergy status. This HANDBOOK clearly states that this policy applies to women as well as men.

NOTE: My statement above DOES NOT imply that the above policy authorizes the ordination or females. Do not read into my comment more than I have said. I am pointing this out as some have argued that this policy does not apply to females.

The 2010 edition of the CHURCH MANUAL is online and available to all. On page 78 it says:

{quote]Ordination Service for Deaconesses—Such a service would be carried out by an ordained pastor currently credentialed by the conference. The ordination service should be characterized by simplicity and performed in the presence of the church.

[Green Cochoa]

Gregory,

Just so we're clear...I'm not opposed to ordaining deaconesses. So I have no problem with that.

My question had to do with whether or not the deacon/deaconess position could only be held by an ordained individual. The answers seem unclear to me still. Outlining a procedure, or even stating it should be followed, seems to come a bit short of saying no one is a deacon without first being ordained.

I have been "dedicated" or "consecrated" to mission service more than once with the laying on of hands. Perhaps that suffices?

How "official" does something need to be?

Ultimately, it is God's ordination that counts most.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green: I pass no judgement on you. You asked a question and I supplied reference material for you to consider.

[phkrause]

I guess that's the new thing now on CA, we don't allow others opinions. We attack them instead. Only a select few are allowed opinions, and than, its not just opinion, but actually they have the correct opinion.

[Green Cochoa]

pkrause,

Did you see me as being attacked here? I must admit, I don't quite understand why Gregory chose to respond in the manner in which he did. In my comments, I didn't disagree with anything he had said. I simply stated that things were still unclear to me. And that is still true, as he did not choose to clarify further.

My earlier post is still true. I was officially designated as a deacon in a church in which I was not first ordained. I was told at that time that deacons were not required to be ordained per church policy. It was the ordained pastor who thus informed me. Hence my lack of clarity on this issue.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

To alL:

I did not see anyone as being attacked.

I saw the one who began this thread as asking a question, to which I made a response.

I understood Green as asking me to clairfy the meaning of my responses.

I attempted to clairfy and did not consider myself in any way to be arguing with Green, or him arguing with me.

[CoAspen]

Agree with you.

[Neil D]

Gregory,

Need help with a problem that is right up your alley. Want to send you a private message, but , according to the board, your alotment is full....Can you delete some of your other messages and allow some new ones come thru?

[Gregory Matthews]

I have removed 20 messages. That should do it. If not, let me know and I will send you a private e-mail address.

GM

[tigerwillow]

Narcah,

Our junior deaconesses collected the offering and ushered the congregation out at the end of the service once every quarter.