Bible vs Tradition

[Gus Foster]

I was at Bible study this morning at the YMCA and someone noted that we are becoming just one religion -- the 2200 denominations are melting into one--- and that worldliness has pretty much taken over--

someone reminded us that there is a 'remnant'

My question for today would be--

What are your church traditions and are they Scripturally based?

[Kevin H]

I would not necessary say that "Worldliness" has taken over, but more of churches have been uniting over Fundamentalism, Dispensationalism and Calvinism.

Fundamentalism has a lot of truth but is to an extreme especially with their view of inspiration. Traditionally studies of last day events have been based on the principles of Joachim of fiore. Adventism is based on the development of his thought over the centuries to some Bible conferences in the late 1700's to early 1800s, and are a remnant of this tradition. Then John Nelson Darby took a part of what Joachim had to say (and not even one of his better teachings) and had used that to move out into a new direction and building his own traditions on his speculations and tradition, so that it branches off from the main trend of Joachim's principles.

Calvinism is about half the truth, and Arminianism is the other half. Mrs. White tried to make a oneness out of the two views, but we tend to separate them. However even the traditional Arminian churches; Methodist, Wesleyan etc. have been hopping on to the Calvin bandwagon as they unite on the 3 points of Fundamentalism, Dispensationalism and Calvinism.

[Gibs]

I would add spiritualism and paganism to what Kevin posted and I cannot but see the world has come into the churches.

Preach unto me smooth things is the cry and so they get it as they want it, but is it the true Gospel?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gus Foster]

It may well be that our concept, our interpretation of worldliness has been maligned. I am reminded of one of my favorite passages -- Titus 2:11 --

"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ("to say no") -to- ungodliness and worldly desires, and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in this present age."

To suggest to an Adventist church goer that he is worldly or ungodly has become 'hate speech.'

Just look and the dress, the diet and the demeanor. I actually have an in-church aversion to 4" high heels and high and low cut dresses and guys wearing jeans and tee-shirts. One could look in our avaricious parking lots -- lots of evangelism in those wheels.

[ClubV12]

In AD 34 the Jewish Nation, their religion, their house, was removed as the chosen people. Salvation was no longer possible through that organization, they had no relevant message for the world. They were, as a Nation, entirely removed from Gods plan.

This is exactly what happened to the Sunday keeping Churches around 1844. They were entirely removed as a method or means of carrying a message to the world. Their house was left unto the desolate because they refused to accept the light revealed.

Does this mean Jews cannot be saved? Or those who worship on Sunday, today, cannot be saved? Of course not. It means the further and continual downward trend of the Sunday keeping Churches is inevitable, there will be no reformation, no revival, they are doomed for evermore. Just as the Jews were, have been and always will be living under the curse they pronounced upon themselves. His blood be on us and our children. God answered that prayer!

The burning question is, what about todays chosen people? That group with a specific mission and message. That group who alone carries the message of a correct understanding of the method and means of salvation. As salvation was of the Jews, in the time of Jesus, so today salvation is of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. This Church alone carries the correct understanding of truth for today.

So what of this group? This chosen Church? Has God abandoned His people, are they, like the Jews and the Sunday keeping Churches, no longer the chosen people? Do they now preach a false message? Did the Jews preach a false message?

No, up until the time God removed His favor from the Jews and in time the Sunday keeping Churches, they carried the light to a dieing world. The Samaritans didn't have it. Nor did the Romans. Nor do the Baptists or Mormons or Seventh Day Whatever's. Certainly no group among the Greeks or Gentiles had the truth. No other religion on earth carried the message of the reformers, the Christians of this world, Gods chosen people.

Today, that group, that chosen people remain the Seventh-day Adventists. Like the Jews, like the Christians before them, deep in sin, deep in apostasy, far from the blue print, but Adventists remain, the chosen vessel for this time. There is no other visible, organized for service, officially recognized by God and by man group of people on earth other than Seventh-day Adventists who are the chosen vessel.

Some say, God has removed His favor from this visible organized Church, His chosen vessel. In doing so, they demonstrate that they have joined themselves in spirit to the Sunday keeping Churches, the Jews, those groups who fight against the truth.

[ClubV12]

By the way Gus, you mention cars in the parking lot. One of the first crisis of moral issues I faced was my fancy car. People would talk about it, love to see it, wanted to know all about it. Even CHURCH ladies were asking for a ride in it!!

I was appalled, it was all about the car, nothing about Jesus. When it hit me, I couldn't sell that car fast enough. Today, I drive a non-descript, four door, plain Jane Ford. A car I used to laugh at. I do this so no one will have occasion to talk about the car. I want to talk about Jesus.

[Gibs]

No Church system was ever any ones salvation, as the system can save no one, salvation is by and through Jesus Christ only!

"We cannot even manufacture faith ourselves. "It is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2:8). The whole of our salvation comes through the gift of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. How glad I am. It comes from such a source that we cannot doubt it. And He is "the author"--does it stop there? Does it stop there? "The author and finisher of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2). Thank God. He attends us every step of the way through, if we are willing to be saved in Christ's appointed way, through obedience to His requirements. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8). "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). What does this mean? Is it a contradiction? Let us see what the last of it says. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (verses 12, 13). Praise God. Now who will be discouraged? Who is going to faint? It is not committed to us, weak, feeble mortals to work out our own salvation in our own line. It is Christ that worketh in you. And this is the privilege of every son and daughter of Adam. But we are to work. We are not to be idle. We are put here in this world to work. We are not put here to fold our arms.--Manuscript 18, March 4, 1894, "Laborers Together With God." {TDG 72.1}

Christ taught the truth because He was the truth. His own thought, His character, His life experience, were embodied in His teaching. So with His servants: those who would teach the word are to make it their own by a personal experience. They must know what it means to have Christ made unto them wisdom and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. In presenting the Word of God to others, they are not to make it a suppose-so, or a may-be. They should declare with the apostle Peter, "We have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty" (2 Peter 1:16).... {TDG 72.2}

As a worker gives himself unreservedly to the service of the Lord, he gains an experience that enables him to work more and more successfully for the Master.--Letter 86, March 4, 1907, to "Our churches in large cities." {TDG 72.3}

Just as no denomination is not the church, no church is your savior! The saved however are in "HIS" Church!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.