Mental focus precludes physical provision

[Gail]

EGW makes a statement something to the effect that Christ's spiritual anguish at Gethsemane and during the crucifixion were so great that the physical suffering was hardly felt.

Have you ever experienced such a thing?

In your opinion would this have also happened during His temptation, when He was in the desert for 40 days without food or water and was afterward a hungered?

[debbym]

somewhere i read that Moses was lifted above the pangs of hunger by the presence of God on the mount, but not so when Christ suffered the pangs of hunger in the desert.

and i think the pain of the crucifixion was not felt because Christ was brought so low as he was dying from separation from God, from his heart breaking.... he was brought into such deep mental and emotional pain he was below feeling the physical suffering.

yes i think we can be above feeling body hunger caught up in spiritual joy and glory and we can be so intense in other kinds of suffering we can be past feeling our body suffering.

it is so unspeakable it is hard to speak of it.

[Kevin H]

This is also the description (except on a finite level while Christ suffered on an infinite level) of what the lost go through as they see how beautiful Jesus is, yet they allow their sins to separate them from their deepest desire.

But there are those among us who believe that this is not severe enough and want's God to add a literal fire as some kind of divine spanking to this. The fact that Jesus barely felt the physical pain shows how worthless it would be to add to the horror of being separated from the one who is altogether lovely.

[Kevin H]

This is a powerful topic and I hope that more add to this discussion and think about this powerful piece of information

[Green Cochoa]

As soon as Jesus was nailed to the cross, it was lifted by strong men, and with great violence thrust into the place prepared for it. This caused the most intense agony to the Son of God. ... {DA 745.2}

Not all of His suffering on the cross was mental.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gail]

Not all of His suffering on the cross was mental.

I don't think that anyone implied that it was.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa

Not all of His suffering on the cross was mental.

I don't think that anyone implied that it was.

Exactly!!! But it shows how the horror of being separated from the one all together lovely is. That mental anguish is what God the Father and God the Spirit suffered through those days.

Now, I have to admit that I have some questions about the quote, if this was copied from borrowed material since she tends to focus on the mental anguish overwhelming the physical, and also, while it was believed that the cross was a piece of wood that was thrusted into a hole, and we have since learned that it was the cross bar that was carried out, then they were hung on olive trees. Jesus would have had his arms nailed to the cross beam, then that would be lifted up and hung on an olive tree and then they would have nailed his feet into either side of the tree trunk.

[Green Cochoa]

Kevin,

I would have to disagree with the concept that they were hung on olive trees. Perhaps that happened once in a while, but I do not believe such was the case with Jesus--or Peter either. Consider the following passage:

Jesus hears the tramp of the besieging army. He sees the temple in ruins. He sees famine and distress in the city. His prophetic eye sees Calvary, the hill upon which he shall be lifted up, planted with crosses as thick as the forest trees. He sees the very ones nailed thereon who clamored for his condemnation, and who cried out under their Satanic delusion, "His blood be on us and on our children." The retribution that has fallen upon them is most terrible; for they are left to the mercy of the leader they have chosen, and Satan and his confederacy of evil angels wreak their spite upon the human family. {ST, February 27, 1896 par. 12}

It doesn't appear that a cross was the same as an actual living tree. If it were a tree, it is apparently called a "cross tree." And how long would a cross take to grow if planted on Calvary?

If the soldiers nailed the feet of each victim to the olive tree, I would think the olive tree would be quite damaged over time. Would they pull the nails out, and leave the sap to drip? Or would they have to find a new tree for lack of free space between nails? Honestly, I've never heard that it was customary for the Roman soldiers to use olive trees.

Let us not forget that the Mount of Olives is distinct from Mount Calvary.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Kevin H]

There were many olive trees and groves all around Jerusalem, not just the Mt. of Olives. This comes from the historical and archaeological studies of crucifixion.

[Green Cochoa]

There were many olive trees and groves all around Jerusalem, not just the Mt. of Olives. This comes from the historical and archaeological studies of crucifixion.

Regarding the olive trees growing in many places around Jerusalem, I am sure you are right. Regarding historical and archaeological studies--I would place the Bible above them.

It is noteworthy that Moses did not lift the brasen serpent up on an olive branch. Jesus fulfilled the type which Moses' serpent represented.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Windsor]

Both may have occurred, but there were mass crucifixions that would line the highways of the day and I doubt they were all neatly hung on a row of olive trees lining the highway.

This is what wikipedia says:

The Greek and Latin words corresponding to "crucifixion" applied to many different forms of painful execution, from impaling on a stake to affixing to a tree, to an upright pole (a crux simplex) or to a combination of an upright (in Latin, stipes) and a crossbeam (in Latin, patibulum).[13]

[13] - Seneca the Younger wrote: "I see crosses there, not just of one kind but made in many different ways: some have their victims with head down to the ground; some impale their private parts; others stretch out their arms on the gibbet" (Dialogue "To Marcia on Consolation", 6.20.3).

[Gail]

Thanks, Windsor- that is how I understand it, too