How Should a Christian Witness To Pagans and Athiests?

[JoeMo]

Discussing my faith and the reasons I believe what I believe is pretty easy when witnessing to other Christians. But I find that may of us are considerably less effective when discussing our faith with non-Christians. It's not too bad to have spiritual discussions with most pagans, because at least we share a belief in the supernautural with them; and most are pretty open-minded; and aren't necessarily "insulted" by the fact that we worship the Judeo-Christian God. Many pagan that I know are actually more tolerant of differences between Christianity and paganism that Christians are.

But athiests? They are a harder nut to crack; because they don't believe in the supernatural at all - everything ultimately has a rational, natural explanation; and the existence of God, gods, or angels and miracles is a fairy tale. Short of a direct encounter with the supernatural, I don't know how an athiest can even get his head around a Christian's world view. What do you think?

[phkrause]

Discussing my faith and the reasons I believe what I believe is pretty easy when witnessing to other Christians. But I find that may of us are considerably less effective when discussing our faith with non-Christians. It's not too bad to have spiritual discussions with most pagans, because at least we share a belief in the supernautural with them; and most are pretty open-minded; and aren't necessarily "insulted" by the fact that we worship the Judeo-Christian God. Many pagan that I know are actually more tolerant of differences between Christianity and paganism that Christians are.

To answer your post title. With the way we live. We should walk the talk. That's how we should witness to all, not just Pagans, Gentiles, etc.

Originally Posted By: JoeMo

But athiests? They are a harder nut to crack; because they don't believe in the supernatural at all - everything ultimately has a rational, natural explanation; and the existence of God, gods, or angels and miracles is a fairy tale.

I disagree with this statement, but I'd like to see how MT replys.

Short of a direct encounter with the supernatural, I don't know how an athiest can even get his head around a Christian's world view. What do you think?

Again, as most people that are not Christians, they would like to see us walk the talk. The best witness is the way we live our lives.

[M. T. Cross]

I have two ways of looking at this, and it is very dependent on the person and/or situation.

My first thought is "You shouldn't. You should respect their right to their beliefs and expect the same in return"

That works in every day life, at the grocery store, work, the gas station etc.

However, if the subject comes up, or the opportunity arises where it seems appropriate, or if some atheists or pagan come to your message board......

You should still respect their beliefs and expect the same in return. But once a dialogue is opened I think honesty with tact is the best approach.

So as far as pagans go...... The pagans that I associate with are far from insulted or could even care that you worship the god you do. I'm know there are some out there, but there will always be people that get their knickers in a twist, and the pagans I share time with chastise them to no end about it. As for witnessing to the rest of us that respect your right to your belief system there is, IMO, one thing that Christians need to remember. None of us can PROVE anything. So that makes everyones point just as valid as the other persons. We can provide evidence, and we can all share our stories and experiences, but at the end of the day what we actually KNOW is a deeply personal thing.

So if you enter into a conversation with a pagan from that standpoint of equal footing and valid worldviews, you might have a chance at a discussion. But you have to be willing to listen as well. I know the folks here that I am willing to discuss my spirituality openly with have that approach.

I can tell you with certainty however that informing a pagan that their Gods are demons disguised, or lesser beings than your God will not get you anywhere.

As far as atheists...... well yeah thats a bit harder nut to crack. But that depends as well. You have atheists that just can't be bothered to believe in anything cause it would take up their time and then you have atheists like the ones that show up here. Men and women that are intelligent and thoughtful, and have scientific evidence and proof to back up what they know. I don't think that they refuse to believe in the supernatural, they know there is more out there, but they just have not seen any evidence of it being any sort of deity.

[JoeMo]

Good answers, gentlemen.I agree with both of you.

PK, when I read your response, I thought of something I was told long ago - "You might be the only Bible someone ever reads". I have never forgot that. You really don't need words to tell people who or what you are. Your actions speak much louder.

MT, as always, you present a logical, practical, and non-threatening approach. I have found that most non-Christians do not care what one's faith is; their attraction to another person is based on personality, character, and mutual respect. There are honest and honorable Christians, pagans, and athiests out there, just as there are dishonest and hypocritical ones.

Being your true self is very important in your personal witness. It is so sad to see people "faking it" - coming to church or work saying how wonderful their lives are and how blessed they are when you know their personal lives are in shambles and that they are barely under control. My experience is that Christians tend to mask their real lives more than pagans and athiests; and "faking it" is a poor witness.

[phkrause]

Here is an interesting talk by Shawn Boonstra on this subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djnFojtG8iU

[debbym]

faith and unbelief look at the identical event or information, and one is filled with awe and worship the other shrugs it off.

God continues to make himself known, to all, atheist or not.

i cannot say for any individual if a supernatural miracle would be the event that would bring conviction or faith in God.

all the miracles in front of the Israelites in leaving Egypt did not make believers of the Egyptians, nor did it make the Israelites faithful believers.

the power of love is amazing, but not usually something that has to have a supernatural element in it's revelation to be life changing.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

None of us can PROVE anything

Maybe not to others. However Jesus came to this world to prove Who God is and how much He loves all men. And He asks us to carry the message to others as He carried it to us, allowing the Holy Spirit to convict the heart.

"If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you. Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master, nor is one who is sent greater than the one who sent him." John 13:14-16 NASB

I see this as revealing principle, that if accepted would solve 99% of the worlds problems.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

informing a pagan that their Gods are..... lesser beings than your God will not get you anywhere.

And tragically, that is advice directly contrary to the Creator Gods' instructions to those who follow Him.

"I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I (am) the Lord thy God..."Exodus 20:2-5 KJV

parenthesis supplied LHC

So the question I need to ask myself is, should I believe the God Who is from everlasting to everlasting, or the gods who came to the attention of the human race most often many centuries after the beginning of time.

" In the beginning God created..."

Genesis 1:1 NASB

God cares! Jesus saves!

[M. T. Cross]

LHC, at the risk of beating a dead horse, as you don't seem interested in exploring any outlook other than your own, a question was asked and an answer given. An answer from probably the most qualified, as far as the pagan part goes, person here.

As far as proof, I regret to inform you that you actually agreed with me. But the only proof each of us needs is to ourselves, if we can see it proven in our life then that is, at the end of the day, the most important proof of all.

In regards to your second post.

I am not sure whether it is your God or just his followers that have this deep seeded need to claim him to be greater than any other God.See I don't ever, have never and I doubt will ever see that need in any of the Gods I honour. Their sense of ego and entitlement does not require this.

Also I would like to see some evidence of your claim (other than some bible verse) as to the exact known time that any of the other Gods came to the attention of the human race, or for that matter when the actual beginning of time (not simply time as our limited human minds perceive it) came to be. You sir seem to know something that no other human has ever known.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

you don't seem interested in exploring any outlook other than your own

Guess I must plead guilty to that, at least except for the purpose of introducing the Creator God Who identifies Himself as the only One willing to die, out of love for them, even if it would cost His own eternal existence.

At a particular time many years in the past, I came across the information that in the country of India, those that have a god they worship, have a choice among 330 million different gods.

http://allhindugodgoddess.blogspot.com/2010/08/list-of-hindu-gods-and-goddesses.html

Quote:

The Hindu Pantheon of Gods and goddesses is so vast. In India, there are 330 millions or more Gods and Goddesses in Hindu religion. All the Hindu gods and goddesses have their own and extra ordinary images and deities to represent.

Beyond the fact that He has answered innumerable prayers on my behalf over the past half century, His instructions from His Holy book gives promises of His coming back to take me home with Him (along with many others that put their trust in Him), His coming described as at the very door.

Gotta call, MT. I'll try to get back later this evening.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[olger]

Here is an interesting talk by Shawn Boonstra on this subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djnFojtG8iU

The Boon be soundin good!

Gerry

[Bravus]

Telling the truth is an absolutely essential minimum.

[LifeHiscost]

Continuing in my answer to your last #684494, since I choose to take the easiest routes if they make sense, I found it easy to accept the God Who identifies Himself as One Who is Love as well as making Himself responsible for all the good I might find myself doing for Him. How long would it take me to go through the 330 million gods located among the Indians from India in hopes of finding the best one among them, in a life of searching, not to mention all other gods of other belief systems.

This is the Creator God's advice to me which has enabled me to establish Who deserves my worship.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

John 3:16-17 KJV

"Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will restore your fortunes..."Jeremiah 29:12-14 NASB

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”"John 3:6-8 NASB

If the god/s you depend upon are right, and I am wrong, then we both are finished when we come to the end of the proverbial three score and ten and I haven't lost anything I wouldn't have lost anyway. However if I am right about the God I serve and you are wrong, then you will be lost to eternity but I will reap the enjoyment of everlasting life, life without end. Seems like a nobrainer to me.

All I can say is enjoy your life as best you can. You have one, whereas I am in the 2nd one Jesus has promised to those who trust Him, and the second is without end.

"And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have God’s Son does not have life.

I have written this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know you have eternal life."1 John 5:11-13 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

[M. T. Cross]

LHC, I would love to respond to you here with something deep and insightful, but I really have no clue what you are going on about.

But none the less I will give it a shot.........

As far as the Hindu gods and goddesses.. ok.... and? I'm not a Hindu, have never studied Hinduism so I can't really speak to it, but I would suggest educating yourself further than some blogs and blurbs before holding up another religion as an example.

Beyond the fact that He has answered innumerable prayers on my behalf over the past half century, His instructions from His Holy book gives promises of His coming back to take me home with Him (along with many others that put their trust in Him), His coming described as at the very door.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Are you saying you are already in the second life? That you will never die?

You've been very thoughtful in spending so much time making an effort to understand what I was saying, especially if the quoted Word makes no sense to you. I can only suggest more of the same source that might be a clue as to the why.

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

1 Corinthians 2:12 NKJV

God (Jehovah God) does not speak to me as if He were in competition with any other god since He reveals Himself as the only God there is, He Who didn't make any other god when He created "all things".

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."John 1:1-3 KJV

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” John 10:27-30 NASB

"And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."1 John 5:11-13 NASB

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”"John 3:6-8 NASB

Those last texts indicates the reason I have that second life, a result of answering His invitation.

"Those whom I [dearly and tenderly] love, I tell their faults and convict and convince and reprove and chasten [i discipline and instruct them]. So be enthusiastic and in earnest and burning with zeal and repent [changing your mind and attitude].

Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears and listens to and heeds My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will eat with him, and he [will eat] with Me.

He who overcomes (is victorious), I will grant him to sit beside Me on My throne, as I Myself overcame (was victorious) and sat down beside My Father on His throne."

Revelation 3:19-21 AMP parenthesis brackets theirs' LHC

God knows His instruction is true and He gives it freely to give necessary caution, revealing other pathways lead to oblivion.

"So Jesus was saying to those.... who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” "John 8:31-33 NASB

Jesus saves! God cares!

.

[Bravus]

Quote:

Are you saying you are already in the second life? That you will never die?

You've been very thoughtful in spending so much time making an effort to understand what I was saying, especially if the quoted Word makes no sense to you. I can only suggest more of the same source that might be a clue as to the why.

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Avoiding gratuitous insults might be a step in the right direction of answering the OP.

[Stan]

Witnessing is not something you do, it is something you are.

[Naomi]

Witnessing is not something you do, it is something you are.

[olger]

Witnessing is not something you do, it is something you are.

It is so.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Avoiding gratuitous insults might be a step in the right direction of answering the OP.

Yup.

What we have here is a failure to understand basic methods of communication when posting. Face to face communication includes much more than words. Words in a post are just that, words with out the accompanying data that is needed for proper understanding.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Avoiding gratuitous insults might be a step in the right direction of answering the OP.

Yup.

What we have here is a failure to understand basic methods of communication when posting. Face to face communication includes much more than words. Words in a post are just that, words with out the accompanying data that is needed for proper understanding.

"And they, whether they will hear or refuse to hear—for they are a rebellious house—yet shall they know and realize that there has been a prophet among them."

Ezekiel 2:5 AMP

"For whoever is ashamed [here and now] of Me and My words in this adulterous (unfaithful) and [preeminently] sinful generation, of him will the Son of Man also be ashamed when He comes in the glory (splendor and majesty) of His Father with the holy angels."

Mark 8:38 AMP

God cares! Jesus saves!

[CoAspen]

An apology would have been most appropriate instead of random texts meant to support, but fail, your attitude. Do you realize that such simply confirms MT's opinion of the christianity practiced by many people? While some of us wish to have open dialogue and understanding with MT, others seek only to tear down. At least MT is familiar enough with the real words of Christ to understand that Christ stood for something different.

What is being shown, by some, is exactly how not to witness....to anyone, pagan or otherwise. For shame.

[Johann]

Trouble understanding each other?

Reminds me of this incident:

- There is a letter from junior at college. You find the dictionary while I look for my checkbook.

Do we need the right dictionaries and checkbooks?

[Bravus]

Quote:

"But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

1 Corinthians 2:12 NKJV

If taken as it has been applied here, this text means it is simply, flat out impossible to witness to atheists. Rendering at least one half of this thread and the OP moot.

How many here agree that it is impossible to witness to atheists?

[olger]

This guy could do it.